Quote from: Kora on August 24, 2014, 03:11:59 AM

Quote from: Djinou94 on August 23, 2014, 01:01:56 PM

Quote from: megashira1 on August 22, 2014, 05:18:33 PM

Quote from: Tobo on August 21, 2014, 02:13:33 PM

Quote from: Kora on May 22, 2014, 10:22:20 AM

Mission statement: Bootstrap ORA, a clone of Qora with a free & fair equal distribution on a mass scale to over 3,000 stakeholders.

Can you clone BTSX instead of Qora? It seems that BTSX is more worthy to clone.

I think cloning QORA is a better opportunity than BTSX. Noones going to buy into a BTSX clone when BTSX is fine and doing well as it is.

On the other hand QORA is and has been totally screwed from the start. Distribution completely botched, incompetent community, horrible management, no open source, 1 man dev team.

Also I would like to add that the funds raised during the IPO have not been allocated towards development but merely pocketed by the developer (wtf?).

Also, get this, the developer, whom of which everyone is reliant on for developing the coin IS NOT EVEN INVESTED IN THE COIN HIMSELF! He has no stake in the project, merely operating on good faith. Would you trust a CEO to run your company if he has no stake in it and is not getting anything in return for working? How well would that CEO perform? Would he care about the companies success? Would he act in shareholders interests or in his own self interest that of which is divergent to those of investors?

Qoras an absolute disaster and we should capitalize on this. We have a large community, competent leaders, fair distribution and a vision. Everything QORA is lacking. Clone it and lets accomplish what QORA has failed at miserably.

So why not coming to help instead cloning ?
You guys are snake
Waiting to take advantage of others work

As the original 'snake' I think I should probably respond to your suggestion to 'come and help', which I assume means why don't we come and help Qora. That's a very reasonable suggestion, and in the days after Qora was released that was my intention, and still is!

I am not a technical person, so I can't help with coding work, or setting up websites etc, but what I can do is help with 'community building' and marketing ideas & promotion. In the early days of Qora I was planning to do this, and I was able to buy up a good sized stake in Qora once I had the opportunity, over 15 bitcoins worth.

So what changed you might ask? Why did I start proposing 'Kora: a clone of Qora', and start doing something that on the surface would appear to threaten my own sizable investment?

When I first heard about Qora and did my research I realised straight away (like many others) that Qora was something special (like NXT), and its potential was enormous. I still feel exactly the same way about the Qora dev, and the Qora tech. Both have huge potential. So what changed you ask ... nothing! I'm glad I invested in Qora, and it's part of my long term HODL portfolio now.

So why did I want to start (K)Ora then? Because it's good for Qora (and my sizable investment), and it's good for the wider crypto movement, and because it's obvious a great new coin will eventually get cloned many times over, and I KNEW my motivation wasn't cynical and short sighted, so I believed in the long run I had a good chance of helping to bootstrap a 'good' clone.

There will be plenty of scammy P & D Qora clones soon enough after the source is released, but I think history will show (K)Ora wasn't a cynical short sighted greedy clone, but it probably has contributed to making Qora a lot better. How? Because competition promotes innovation & excellence. Why was eastern block manufacturing under communism low quality? Lack of competition, so quality is low & innovation comes from government 'stick', rather than market 'carrot'(i.e. profits). That's a gross simplification, but IMO it's true. The threat of competition and possible extinction from a rival brings out the best in people.

The problem was in the early days after Qora was released the focus was ALL about pumping the price as high as possible, not growing the community, like the original NXT founders did. I tried to encourage Qora founders to think about growing their community, but that was fobbed off as 'trolling'.

The NXT founders deliberately sold very cheap in large quantities, and they were primarily focused on increasing user numbers (i.e. NXT'ers), not the NXT price. There was a price increase for NXT (and IMO it was too high too quick), but it was NOT orchestrated by deliberate actions to restrict supply and force up prices. There is a time for HODL'ing, but it isn't a week after a coin with only 137 users is launched. That's the time to distribute and grow your community. NXT founders seemed to understand this, but Qora founders were pumping dangerously, and a devastating crash seemed inevitable, and with a small user base and a new coin everyone needs to keep in the black, so you have to avoid a P & D blood bath at all costs.

Many of the NXT founders were actively organising give-aways, and if you look at the NXT market thread from last December you can clearly see that the goal of many of the NXT founders was to make MORE NXT millionaires asap to help them spread & grow NXT. They weren't trying to guage MASSIVE profits out of the first and second waves of new NXT'ers.

If you compare the early days of NXT and Qora the difference is quite stark. NXT founders were thinking how to grow a community, Qora founders were thinking 'yippee, we're rich'. Both were very vulnerable from having a very small initial user base, but NXT changed this quite quickly, but IMO Qora founders weren't thinking about the future, just the cash out of mega profits, and Qora was likely to fail.

I did try and help the Qora community, but the majority of Qora founders didn't agree with my basic point - with 137 users the first goal is grow the user numbers, and you do that best by keeping the price low and gradually increasing it 'escalator' style, avoid pump, so there isn't a later crash, that way new investors stay above water & make a profit too - but that message was past off as just 'trolling'. I wasn't using this 'Kora' identity then, but I think many Qora followers know who I was.

In the early days after Qora was released I quickly came to the conclusion that the Qora community (not the Qora dev or his/her code) was vulnerable to competition. There was too much focus on quick profits from pumping the price. Review the Qora thread from mid May on wards, and you'll see plenty of posts from IPO investors encouraging each other to 'hold out' for 100 satoshi starting price, restrict supply, and quickly pump the price to ridiculous levels. Some even suggested holding out for 500 satoshi. All the focus was on the 137 IPO investors turning their impressive return into an astronomical return, of NXT proportions.

The Qora IPO investors were understandably excited & happy at their good fortune, but their price pumping behavior was still very short sighted for a coin with only 137 stakeholders. The first task should have been to increase the number of people involved with Qora, by a massive amount. I'm talking 10X minimum to at least ~1000 people holding & following Qora. The original stakeholders were making a critical error IMO. If you pump the price too high too fast, all those first round people get burnt, AND LEAVE. The big picture strategy was clear to me, keep the price low and stable for a good while to encourage new people to buy & join the Qora community. That would still have given the original IPO investors a great return, with a good prospect of MASSIVE returns later on, once the community had grown. I can't remember the numbers, but even at ~20 sats the original IPO investors are making a great return, and it still would have left plenty of room for a decent return for the first and second waves of new investors.

A pump in week 1 that started at 100 sats and went to 500 quickly was MADNESS, but that's what many people were pushing for. I bought a big chunk at ~35-50 satoshi, so I'm underwater with Qora, but I can afford it, but not everyone can, especially people on modest incomes in countries with relatively low exchange rates. How many Qora could a student in China or India or Brazil buy at ~100-500 satoshi? How would they feel when the price crashed leaving them severely burnt?

The crypto world is very short sighted, and people expect coins to die very quickly, so they want an instant return before the coin dies, then they hit the eject button and jump onto the next coin. Qora was obviously something different but some of the notable IPO investors were conducting themselves as if Qora was a get rich quick scheme from a stock standard bitcoin clone. That was very dangerous IMO, and with only 137 stakeholders, Qora was extremely vulnerable.

So ... I thought about Qora and realised I should put my 'money where my mouth was' and start Kora. See if my community building ideas were effective. If it worked then great, (K)Ora would be a legitimate part of the crypto landscape, and if nothing else it would put needed 'pressure' on Qora community members to get their focus on the main game - grow an effective community, leave the profit taking for later, think long-term.

Nothing I have done so far with ORA, or will do in the future is 'scammy' in any way. I obviously can't guarantee the future price of ORA, and maybe some people could lose somewhere along the way, but I'm an advocate of 'slow and steady', I'm a tortoise, not a hare, and ORA is a long term project. I hope that's clear.

Mac Red organised a great initial distribution to ~800 people, Darkhorse & fragORA are honest reliable community treasurers, we have an experienced & talented developer in nio, Pentamon has done a great job organizing the Logo selection process, and I think ORA has a good sized (but modest) number of people following our progress on a regular basis. That's a great platform to build on, and I'm very happy with where we are. Who knows what twists & turns ORA will take in the future, but I feel confident ORA can make a very valuable contribution to the crypto movement, I'm super positive about that!

Anyway, I think Qora is in a lot better position today than back in late May. The price has been stable enough that many new people have had an opportunity to buy a stake while still providing a great return for the IPO investors. The Qora dev is obviously working hard on new features, and the future for Qora is very bright, but to see this you have to think on a longer-term basis than most alt coin followers. The key point for me is Qora hasn't burnt new people from a pump to 500 sats and a crash back to 20 like it could have. That would have created a lot of pissed off people, and that could have killed Qora, but it didn't happen.

The crypto world is very big now, and it's OK to 'love' many coins at the same time!! I love Qora & ORA, but ORA is dear to my heart now because I like the people involved. ORA can be fun & rewarding at the same time!

Just for interest, here are the coins I'm 'loving' at the moment.
These are the coins I've invested in heavily
- Bitcoin
- NXT
- Monero
- Qora
- BTCD

These are my second tier coins that I'm still unsure of, but they look 'interesting', and are good speculative investments
- Crypti
- NODE
- Cryptonite
- Viacoin
- NEM
- Syscoin
- Counterparty
- Mastercoin
- eMunie

Then there are the big 'mega coins' that get more attention
- bithshares
- Ethereum
- Ripple
- Stellar

Sorry for the wall of text, but it feels good to get that of my chest

Thanks for this long post..
And sorry for "the snake" I got carried away as a result of reading some posts
I don't remember you in the Qora thread probably you had another nick
Qora is a young coin and the market has decided
Yea things are better and distribution also anyway everyone is welcome there
I think it's beneficial to have people involved like u are for Ora

I'm agree with your list
Just Cryptonite i dont know what it is and Emunie project is dead, Sky is interesting