Re: Beastlymac - scammed me for 3.1 btc - gridseeds group buy
Yip I agree completely with that as well.
I asked Beastly and he said he sent OP a message in March ( I think it was) advising his items were ready for be sent out. He is still in the process of finding the PM to show us. If he does manage to find the PM my opinion will change....
Not friends with OP or the brother, never even spoken to them before... I just didn't like how they were being treated, based on the evidence that had been presented, so far - Evidence like screenshots, PMs etc etc.. as opposed to both parties just telling there side of the story...
I don't think ANYONE is a scammer but I strongly disagree with some business practices that has been shown.
But this is the reason why this all came about in the first place: lack of communication. You're right, there wasn't a message that the order wasn't sent for processing... There also wasn't a message stating that the order was sent for processing either, but there should have been... Well, it was, but months too late.
Look at this from the buyer's viewpoint... His name wasn't on the list of orders so he wouldn't have known. I understand you have a separate non public list and he wasn't on the public list because he didn't send his shipping address. But Fact is, he requested the refund only days after the order was placed. The rules stated no refunds after order was sent to the manufacturer, but here again, there's no way he would've known that his order was included in that shipment. You didn't advise him of that until this thread. And the only thing we have is your word that his order was in fact included in that bunch. That's something we'd probably never know for sure. But....
Even if his order was included, it shouldn't have taken you several months to tell him that. Had you advised him early on, he probably would've tried to sell the pre-order as others did. But he was robbed of that option because he was led to believe he was getting a refund; why request the verification (which he sent), if it wouldn't be used to refund him? Even after you found his order, you neglected to tell him that he wasn't entitled to a refund.
My point is, the buyer should've been told from the jump that he wasn't going to be refunded. As I stated before... Given the tone of the initial communication and the fact that my name wasn't on the public list (how would I know you maintain a private list), I'd also be under the impression that I'm getting a refund. The rule is no refund after order is placed - I get that.
What I don't get is why the buyer is absorbing all of this loss on his own when he's technically not at fault? IF he were told this months ago, his loss wouldn't be so drastic. You yourself admitted that lack of communication on your part is partially to blame... That said, this entire incident could've been avoided if it were communicated to the buyer the status of his order - but it wasn't. Now OP is left to settle for a lousy .0something refund when he could've gotten something near the couple of BTC he originally made the purchase for. That isn't fair.
I did not sent him a message in March saying his items where ready for shipping I think that may have been a miss understanding sorry if i gave that impression. The issues have stemmed from no postage details being provided when the order was made. The way this has effected things has meant that in future when conducting and form of sales it will require more information. Although the instructions in the group buy stated that people where required to send a pm with TX id and postage details. A few members of the community provided postage details and payment for postage at a later date and that worked out fine for others. The thread did have updates and posts that if curious miner had read and followed he would have had a better understanding of what happened. People also asked in the thread and via pm about selling orders and i said this could be facilitated it was done via the thread and people made offers in the thread so curios miner could have done that but he decided not to either by choice or by not staying up to date with what was happening. I see that the majority of the misunderstanding came about that i was offering a refund for the single chip devices (that has been given to him) and he misinterpreted it to be that i was offering a refund for the whole order. The request for verification was done for all members who received a refund for the single chip devices and that was the reason that i asked him for account confirmation and a signed message at the time.
PM log:
I have highlighted some important parts
This is the interaction with bbxx
~snip-~ MOOT POINT - Communication should've occurred when buyer requested refund
I asked Beastly and he said he sent OP a message in March ( I think it was) advising his items were ready for be sent out. He is still in the process of finding the PM to show us. If he does manage to find the PM my opinion will change....
Not friends with OP or the brother, never even spoken to them before... I just didn't like how they were being treated, based on the evidence that had been presented, so far - Evidence like screenshots, PMs etc etc.. as opposed to both parties just telling there side of the story...
I don't think ANYONE is a scammer but I strongly disagree with some business practices that has been shown.
So you can't find a message that says his order was not sent for processing on the 7th that is because it was.
I thought this issue would've been over by now But this is the reason why this all came about in the first place: lack of communication. You're right, there wasn't a message that the order wasn't sent for processing... There also wasn't a message stating that the order was sent for processing either, but there should have been... Well, it was, but months too late. Look at this from the buyer's viewpoint... His name wasn't on the list of orders so he wouldn't have known. I understand you have a separate non public list and he wasn't on the public list because he didn't send his shipping address. But Fact is, he requested the refund only days after the order was placed. The rules stated no refunds after order was sent to the manufacturer, but here again, there's no way he would've known that his order was included in that shipment. You didn't advise him of that until this thread. And the only thing we have is your word that his order was in fact included in that bunch. That's something we'd probably never know for sure. But....
Even if his order was included, it shouldn't have taken you several months to tell him that. Had you advised him early on, he probably would've tried to sell the pre-order as others did. But he was robbed of that option because he was led to believe he was getting a refund; why request the verification (which he sent), if it wouldn't be used to refund him? Even after you found his order, you neglected to tell him that he wasn't entitled to a refund.
My point is, the buyer should've been told from the jump that he wasn't going to be refunded. As I stated before... Given the tone of the initial communication and the fact that my name wasn't on the public list (how would I know you maintain a private list), I'd also be under the impression that I'm getting a refund. The rule is no refund after order is placed - I get that.
What I don't get is why the buyer is absorbing all of this loss on his own when he's technically not at fault? IF he were told this months ago, his loss wouldn't be so drastic. You yourself admitted that lack of communication on your part is partially to blame... That said, this entire incident could've been avoided if it were communicated to the buyer the status of his order - but it wasn't. Now OP is left to settle for a lousy .0something refund when he could've gotten something near the couple of BTC he originally made the purchase for. That isn't fair.
I did not sent him a message in March saying his items where ready for shipping I think that may have been a miss understanding sorry if i gave that impression. The issues have stemmed from no postage details being provided when the order was made. The way this has effected things has meant that in future when conducting and form of sales it will require more information. Although the instructions in the group buy stated that people where required to send a pm with TX id and postage details. A few members of the community provided postage details and payment for postage at a later date and that worked out fine for others. The thread did have updates and posts that if curious miner had read and followed he would have had a better understanding of what happened. People also asked in the thread and via pm about selling orders and i said this could be facilitated it was done via the thread and people made offers in the thread so curios miner could have done that but he decided not to either by choice or by not staying up to date with what was happening. I see that the majority of the misunderstanding came about that i was offering a refund for the single chip devices (that has been given to him) and he misinterpreted it to be that i was offering a refund for the whole order. The request for verification was done for all members who received a refund for the single chip devices and that was the reason that i asked him for account confirmation and a signed message at the time.
PM log:
I have highlighted some important parts
This is the interaction with bbxx
~snip-~ MOOT POINT - Communication should've occurred when buyer requested refund
Here's my response to you Beastlymac...
"I did not sent him a message in March saying his items where ready for shipping."
This is exactly my point. Had you advised curiousminer back in March that he wasn't going to get a refund,- i.e., his order was sent to manufacturer - he would've have an opportunity to sell his preorder. This could've been avoided had this taken place. Think about it for a sec. You wasted a lot of time in the beginning with the delayed responses to him. Why couldn't you just tell him? It seems you didn't act on it until he advised he was going to start this thread.
"The thread did have updates and posts that if curious miner had read and followed he would have had a better understanding of what happened."
His name wasn't listed on the public list & he requested a refund a couple of days later. There would be no reason for anyone NOT to think they were getting refund from you - that's based on the initial conversions you had with him. Again, this occurred because of lack of communication; it's all here in this thread.
"I see that the majority of the misunderstanding came about that i was offering a refund for the single chip devices (that has been given to him) and he misinterpreted it to be that i was offering a refund for the whole order."
NO. The majority of the misunderstanding came about because nothing was properly communicated to curiousminer. As a matter of fact - it took you a while to find his order didn't it? There wasn't anything in the posted thread where the type of unit was discussed - so you didn't even know what he ordered until you found the order on your private list. And even after - you still didn't tell him he wasn't getting a refund - you wanted his shipping address instead.
I'm not taking sides - I never did. But if I had to say someone was wrong in this situation, Beastlymac it would be you. You because you led curiousminer on for months before telling him he wasn't getting a refund - this of course was after you finally located his order. Any person who has the ability to think rationally would agree with me. I'm sure there was no malicious intent - I don't think you're a scammer - but from what I skimmed about the GB, it could've been organized a lil better - you admitted you learned a few lessons this go round.
I challenge you to answer a couple of simple and direct questions. Put yourself in curiousminer's shoe, just for a sec. Take a deep breath and reread my post, this time imagine you were the buyer.
Do you think what happened to you is fair? Do you deserve to bare the burden of the monetary loss solo?