Quote from: DodoB on August 25, 2014, 09:23:44 PM

Quote from: u9y42 on August 25, 2014, 05:56:47 PM

"At one point Israel declared about 45% of Gaza as a no-go zone; in a small, densely populated area such as Gaza, and with both Israel and Egypt mostly denying passage to civilians, where exactly is the population supposed to go, even when warnings are actually given? Often times these people have nowhere else to go, and even taking refuge in the few shelters there are doesn't guarantee their safety, as Israel has, intentionally or not, repeatedly hit them."

They can go to whatever place that is not bombed,while they're at it they should also not bring their rockets with them.

I get the feeling you really have no idea of the situation in Gaza, and the level of devastation there. Why do you think there are currently, literally, hundreds of thousands of refugees there at the moment? Do you have any idea of what that is? And again, rockets or no rockets, civilians aren't automatically valid targets - that's a violation of the rules of war, if anyone cares.

Quote from: DodoB on August 25, 2014, 09:23:44 PM

Quote from: u9y42 on August 25, 2014, 05:56:47 PM

"Also, even if there are enemies nearby firing rockets or whatnot, Israel doesn't automatically have the right to attack them if it puts civilians at risk - Israel's actions have been completely disproportionate, and lead me to question if they aren't just following the Dahiya doctrine again."

Israel actions are disproportionate,i agree,but they could be much,much worser. they can turn the operation into to an actual and effective genocide which will end the rocket threat,as there will be no one left to fire. though that will create even bigger problems.

Yes, and other countries could also nuke that whole region to oblivion and end the stupid conflict once and for all - would you like that solution, or should we perhaps move to kill less people, and not more?

Quote from: DodoB on August 25, 2014, 09:23:44 PM

Quote from: u9y42 on August 25, 2014, 05:56:47 PM

"Also, even if there are enemies nearby firing rockets or whatnot, Israel doesn't automatically have the right to attack them if it puts civilians at risk - Israel's actions have been completely disproportionate, and lead me to question if they aren't just following the Dahiya doctrine again."

Rules of war.. does anybody actualy follow these?
if they were indeed following the so called Dahiya doctrine again the results would be much more catastrophic.

You're right, when you have US diplomatic support, you can get away with a lot of crimes - but make no mistake, that support won't last forever, as more and more opposition to Israel's actions is felt at all levels of society; I honestly don't give it 10 years before Israel is completely isolated at this rate.

Quote from: DodoB on August 25, 2014, 09:23:44 PM

Quote from: u9y42 on August 25, 2014, 05:56:47 PM

Yes, because Israel refuses to accept a peace deal, either in the form of the one or two state solution.

Which peace deal are you talking about? specify the conditions.

I'm referring to the one or two states solutions; that is, Israel either taking over the whole territory and population, or Israel and Palestine coexisting side by side, with negotiations having as a starting point the 1967 borders - both of which Israel refuses, either in word or in action.

Quote from: DodoB on August 25, 2014, 09:23:44 PM

Quote from: u9y42 on August 25, 2014, 05:56:47 PM

Know that what you're advocating there is collective punishment - another violation of the Geneva Conventions. Further, it's so bad an argument, that it even serves to legitimate Hamas' attacks on civilians: "some 80% or 90% of Israelis support the attack on Gaza, so they are valid targets", or some nonsense like that - it's wrong when Hamas does it, and it's wrong when Israel does it. But treating the Palestinians like caged animals isn't going to solve anything; only worsen the situation.

Caged animals is a one hell of a wild exaggeration. Hamas and its allies seeing the Jews as subhuman does not solve the situation either.

Is it? Again, you have little to no idea of the situation in Gaza - do us both a favor, and please, look into it: Israeli officials weren't kidding when they said it was meant to keep the Palestinian population at a level just slightly over that of a humanitarian crisis. And you know what would help solve the situation? Ending the illegal blockade and the occupation.

Quote from: DodoB on August 25, 2014, 09:23:44 PM

Quote from: u9y42 on August 25, 2014, 05:56:47 PM

Really? Because I seem to recall them wanting to move to a peaceful solution, even quite recently, and Israel boycotting the negotiations.

Source?

Here I'm referring to the recent unity government that Hamas and Fatah created; Hamas accepted all the preconditions of the Quartet, and despite the Quartet's willingness to work with them (even with US agreement), Israel immediately threatened sanctions against the Palestinian Authority, holding back tax revenues, and suspended peace negotiations - source, the Israeli Prime Minister.