Quote from: GoldSurfer on October 16, 2014, 06:32:35 PM

Quote from: Keyser Soze on October 16, 2014, 06:24:19 PM

Seems that we agree it is a hyip/ponzi.

Who said that? Its your opinion. But I don't see the point to argue because the facts are missing.
By your words any anonymous investment website which accepts Bitcoin is a ponzi/hyip. I don't agree with you.

You said it yourself that you do not care if they are legitimate and gave no reason to why they could be legitimate. If you think they are a legitimate business and not a hyip/ponzi, please enlighten us.

It seems relevant, so I'll quote myself from another thread about a recently failed ponzi:

Quote from: Keyser Soze on August 28, 2014, 05:36:50 PM

Quote from: btcminer222 on August 28, 2014, 01:05:11 AM

Why not, if "random people on the internet" investments help them to earn even more ? I don't see anything wrong in it.

Their method of raising capital is illogical and does not increase their profit. See below quote from another thread.

Quote from: Rannasha on August 23, 2014, 07:00:48 AM

Quote from: Frankie on August 23, 2014, 06:16:36 AM

Quote from: dyask on June 14, 2014, 11:39:23 AM

I don't have any investment in bitcoin-trader.biz. Still I'm amazed at how little creativity detractors show. For example, it is easy to have revolving lines of credit for fiat. There are also multiple ways of moving fait and you can even move by using other cryto currencies. There are fees and spreads that cut into the profit, but that isn't as much an issue if you can trade a multiple of your funds in a day. It is also possible for prices between exchanges to narrow or reverse in a day.

On creativity: What about the myriad ways a hypothetical arbitrageur could leverage his or her trading?

*Reinvesting some of their steady, fabulous profit until arbitrage opportunity has diminishing returns (no cost!)
*Bank loan, home loan refinance, etc. (~5%)
*Equity investors/partners (could be quite low and risk-free to arbitrageur)
*Credit card cash advance (~20%)
*Loan shark (~40%)
*Payday loan (~200%)
*Paying dozens of people 0.5-3% everyday and updating their balances appropriately (~620-3000%)

Not only is the last option the most expensive, it's the most labor-intensive. Literally the only reason someone would do that is if they want the ability to take the money and run.

Indeed. And also: If you walk up to any venture capitalist or other investment firm and can prove to them that you have a way to make 0.5-3% per day risk-free (which is what BT claims), they'll be falling over eachother to give you their money. You wouldn't need to bother with making a website with account-management, keep an entire support team on payroll and bother with questions and complaints from people with $50 investments. Furthermore, you could definitely negotiate better terms when it comes to your own cut of the profits and the lock-in time of the investment.

If BTs activities are real, then their way of collecting money is incredibly inefficient and simply wasting a ton of potential profit for them.

*Bolded for emphasis.

Obviously the exact returns are different in this case, but the same argument still applies.

Some signs of a ponzi, if you are unaware:

Quote from: http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

What are some Ponzi scheme "red flags"?
Many Ponzi schemes share common characteristics. Look for these warning signs:

-High investment returns with little or no risk. Every investment carries some degree of risk, and investments yielding higher returns typically involve more risk. Be highly suspicious of any "guaranteed" investment opportunity.
-Overly consistent returns. Investment values tend to go up and down over time, especially those offering potentially high returns. Be suspect of an investment that continues to generate regular, positive returns regardless of overall market conditions.
-Unregistered investments. Ponzi schemes typically involve investments that have not been registered with the SEC or with state regulators. Registration is important because it provides investors with access to key information about the company's management, products, services, and finances.
-Unlicensed sellers. Federal and state securities laws require investment professionals and their firms to be licensed or registered. Most Ponzi schemes involve unlicensed individuals or unregistered firms.
-Secretive and/or complex strategies. Avoiding investments you do not understand, or for which you cannot get complete information, is a good rule of thumb.
-Issues with paperwork. Do not accept excuses regarding why you cannot review information about an investment in writing. Also, account statement errors and inconsistencies may be signs that funds are not being invested as promised.
-Difficulty receiving payments. Be suspicious if you do not receive a payment or have difficulty cashing out your investment. Keep in mind that Ponzi scheme promoters routinely encourage participants to "roll over" investments and sometimes promise returns offering even higher returns on the amount rolled over.