Quote from: bayuo on September 08, 2014, 09:19:08 PM

Quote from: bayuo on September 08, 2014, 07:34:50 AM

Quote from: zedicus on September 07, 2014, 11:25:46 PM

If you would like my account, I am willing to sell it to you.

There is no need to try and defraud me on a public forum. Quicksellers has sent me a complete case which shows that you sold your own account and now you are trying to get it back by abusing the system. One example being, negotiations were held for three days. Your current account was made exactly after negotiations had ended.

I paid 1.1 BTC for this account.

Lets get this straight. You are a fraud! Its my account and you are in possession of stolen property. Lets make that crystal clear!

This is the first time you have claimed to not be Quickseller. If by a remote chance in hell you arent the same person why are you suddenly messaging me now when all i have wanted to do the whole time is open a dialog to figure out what happened! Clearly i didnt sell anyone my "zedicus" account ! You have violated my privacy and but in danger everyone i have interacted with and for what!

So you can run some adverts on a sig!! Really !! You should be ashamed of yourself.. How pathetic is your life that you have to do that to people!

If you arent "Quickseller" which i highly doubt! Why have you not flagged down flag down a global moderator and told him you were sold a stolen account!

@bayuo The new owner of the zedicus account has offered to sell his account to you for the price he paid (against my recommendation). I would suggest that you do so as this is the only way you will be able to get control of what you claim to be your former account back, and have any credibility. The negative trust that you had Lucky Cris leave the account says that you are willing "to pay current user the amount he paid for the account", you also sent me the following PM (PM#2744455) I have made no edits to the PM other then to bold the part about you offering to pay what I paid for it.

Quote from: bayuo on August 22, 2014, 01:23:26 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on August 20, 2014, 04:02:16 PM

Quote from: bayuo on August 20, 2014, 06:43:58 AM

Quote from: Quickseller on August 20, 2014, 04:51:07 AM

Let me think about it. If I do choose to sell the account back to you it would be for more then was paid for it due to the obvious scam attempt. It would also likely need to involve a large donation to charity (both via escrow) to attempt to deter future similar scams.

The reason I think you are scamming is because you PMed me 3 days before you actually sold it to me. We didn't reach an agreement, but then 3 days later (the day you sold the account) you followed up and we agreed for me to buy your account. Your bayuo account was created hours before you sold your account even though you had not posted for well over a month prior to selling your account.

I did not need to show badbear or any other mod any PM's, although I do have the PM evidence that they can verify if necessary, however they likely looked into your claim when you attempted to get my account back.

In the future I would like to keep our correspondence private unless we both agree otherwise as I do not want to engage in any kind of a PR campaign.

thanks for responding!

It wasnt me man! When you sent the pm to this bayou account you didnt use the zedicus account you used this quickseller account! You claimed to have control of my zedicus account! But the zedicus account was responding in the meta thread..

How was i supposed to know you are one in the same person! Even now!!!!! Why are you not speaking to me using my zedicus account? ?

Thats why i didnt respond! I thought you were a scammer!

Ask the mods to do an ip check!!!! Then at least you can see it wasnt me! If you can see it wasnt me at least you wont be inclined to treat me like a scammer!

Can you use the zedicus account for future dialog?! Do you understand now why i didnt respond?

Hopefully I have proven that I am in control of my account.

An IP check will not do anything as the forum does not reject/question logins done via TOR or a VPN so you could have easily logged in via TOR to PM me and sell the account.

I was also given a 2nd account to get in contact with you on and that would PM me at a later time that has now passed. This account has not done anything to get in touch with me.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt that "it was not you" who sold what is now my account, then someone was likely able to easily guess your password (it may have not be easy - but I don't think it was from a password reset via email, otherwise BadBear would likely have had a different response then what he gave).

Like I said before you had PMed me 3 days prior to selling what is now my account to me from the same account. Then the day you sold it, you created your bayuo account, likely (IMO) with the intention of stealing my account back from me after you received the BTC.

I also think you make a much bigger deal about not having access to your account then I would expect if you were not trying to scam me based on your previous posting history (last post was over a month ago, and the previous post was only 2 weeks prior to that - this is also an indication that you were posting merely to get your activity level up to hero status).

Let me ask you this, what do you think is fair? There appears to be enough evidence that you sold the account to me that the mods are not going to forcibly take the account from me. In my mind I was attempted to be scammed, and there is evidence to support this. It would be unwise for me to allow you to refund me my money simply because your scam failed against me. This would simply encourage you to try this scam on someone else (and/or encourage others to try a similar scam on myself or others) which I do not want.

Thanks for sending a PM with my Zedicus account it does prove you have control of it.
You asked not to post the PM in public and you threatened if i posted it in public you wouldnt return the account?

Im not sure why its important to you not post the PM in public. Why are you against transparency ? Please help me understand? As that points a red flag at you and at this point i was starting to see you as a victim like myself but shying away from transparency leads me to think otherwise.

Im not sure what you mean about a second account. Ive only had one account here at bitcointalk and that was the zedicus account. I created the bayuo account to report my zedicus account stolen but besides that ive never had another account here.

About the guessing of my password, It would be close to impossible as i had a 36 character password on my account.

Regarding the IP check.. I was hoping a mod can look and see it wasnt me who sold you the account and or prove to you that it wasnt my ip who sold you the account! Like i said ive always logged in from the same location and i dont use and masking services like tor or vpn or whatever.. If suddenly my account starts posting from a strange ip for days at a time and then suddenly sells my account wouldnt that clue you or the mods in that it wasnt me? Considering my account always logged in from the same location since day one! Never ever logged in via another location or masking services ever ! Understand?

Timing wise, please take into consideration that i cant see when my account was stolen or when the dialog began with you "using my account". I dont have any info regarding that or the time/date of sale or anything. (Just whatever you said.)

If i was selling my account to scam someone which i would have never done under any circumstances i wouldnt have used some masking service but you are saying i sold you the account and then tried to steal it back by saying my account was stolen? Correct?

And now you are saying im only offering to buy the account back because i have failed to retrieve the account via the mods correct?

Well look into my account history.. You are controlling my account.. Have i once scammed anyone even remotely? Do i have any history of selling accounts or selling anything? Have i ever posted items for sale in the market place or otherwise? Have i ever been involved in anything remotely not legitimate?

You say that im making a bigger deal about not having access to your account than expected considering my last post was over a month ago.

Did you read what i posted when i did post last!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577437.msg7798338#msg7798338

Please note the first line in my post. "Hey people .. Ive been caught up with some life stuff and im catching up"

Also when someone is going around impersonating you how would you expect someone to act.

You asked me what is fair but in the same paragraph you say that in your mind you were being scammed and it would be unwise for you to allow "me" a refund.

It was not "me" who sold you the account! I would not be getting a refund. I would be paying you for the money the scammer got away with.

Let me say this ... it seems you are a intelligible person and i dont think you "think" i sold you the account. I say that because i dont think we would be having this conversation otherwise. I do think that you "think" there is a possibility that im one in the same person but im pretty sure you understand that i have been put in a position that i cant prove otherwise.

Ive offered to pay the price you paid for my account because if what you are saying is true then the person who broke into my account and sold it to you ran off with some money and returning my account to me would put you in a negative balance.

I dont want anyone to be scammed. Hence the reason i was willing to pay what you paid for my account. Im not short on money at all but i am principled in every sense of the word!

Now you may not be able to see completely from my perspective but like i said you seem intelligible and im sure you understand that from my perspective there is a "possibility" that you are the scammer "and" controller of my account. ( one in the same person )

From that perspective It would be rewarding you to give you more than you paid for it in the same way you think it would encourage the scammer which you assumed is me.

If you are NOT a scammer and you are a victim and you have been sold stolen property i would assume you wouldnt want that to happen to you again or anyone-else for that matter.

Like i said i encourage you to look into my account history and find any scam like activity at all. I think you would be inclined to believe that i am not the same person who sold you my account.

I think this is bigger than just my account, i think the way the forum is set up.. it a creates a breeding ground for such activity and a simple email confirmation or 2 factor could have stopped it all.

Like i mentioned i had a pretty strong password on my account and the chances of someone guessing my password is slim to none.

Regarding the proof that you attempted to scam me. Your account was created on Aug 13, 2014.

On Aug 10, 2014 I get a PM from you (PM# 2685227)

Quote from: zedicus on August 10, 2014, 11:21:36 AM

Are you also buying hero accounts?

I respond via PM (PM#2685818)

Quote from: Quickseller on August 10, 2014, 02:33:05 PM

Quote from: zedicus on August 10, 2014, 11:21:36 AM

Are you also buying hero accounts?

not for as much as you would be able to get for it selling on your own.

How much do you want for it?

You replay via PM (PM#2685997)

Quote from: zedicus on August 10, 2014, 03:27:23 PM

Hmmm... I have to create an new account to sell my account :/. I don't want a neg. trust.

Accounts are worth much more than 1 BTC. I guess I will sell mine for a whole BTC.

My response via PM is (PM# 2686003)

Quote from: Quickseller on August 10, 2014, 03:29:59 PM

Quote from: zedicus on August 10, 2014, 03:27:23 PM

Hmmm... I have to create an new account to sell my account :/. I don't want a neg. trust.

Accounts are worth much more than 1 BTC. I guess I will sell mine for a whole BTC.

It is generally advisable to create a new account to sell your account.

1 BTC would be too much for me. I really just don't have the capital now.

None of these PMs have been altered in any way, including the timestamps. Note how they were all dated on Aug 10, 2014 (three days prior to the bayuo account being created).

Three days later, I get another PM from the zedicus account (PM# 2703358)

Quote from: zedicus on August 13, 2014, 05:34:48 PM

Hello Quickseller,

I PM'd you a while ago...

How much do you think I can get for my account???

Zedicus

My response was this PM (PM# 2703503)

Quote from: Quickseller on August 13, 2014, 06:04:24 PM

Quote from: zedicus on August 13, 2014, 05:34:48 PM

Hello Quickseller,

I PM'd you a while ago...

How much do you think I can get for my account???

Zedicus

I would list it for 1.1 or so. I think it would probably be worth about that, but I don't know how the falling BTC prove affects the price of accounts.

Like I said before I really don't have the capital to buy it from you. If you wanted to avoid creating a new account to sell it the most I could offer is .5 with escrow (I just don't have the capital to pay more then that)

He replied with this PM (PM# 2704039)

Quote from: zedicus on August 13, 2014, 07:34:05 PM

Hmm we could make a deal:
0.5 btc now (via escrow) and after you sold this account another 0.4 btc -0.5 btc...

Please keep in mind that I will monitoring this account. So please don't scam...

I replied with this PM (PM# 2704103)

Quote from: Quickseller on August 13, 2014, 07:45:09 PM

Quote from: zedicus on August 13, 2014, 07:34:05 PM

Hmm we could make a deal:
0.5 btc now (via escrow) and after you sold this account another 0.4 btc -0.5 btc...

Please keep in mind that I will monitoring this account. So please don't scam...

I would also really not want the possibility of being accused of scamming like that. I would want it 100% clear that the account is mine and that I can do as I wish with it. I don't like the idea of a future liability like that.

He replied by sending this PM (PM#2704128)

Quote from: zedicus on August 13, 2014, 07:50:20 PM

Hmmm... ok, if we make 50:50 on sig campaign?
You have to give me also your email address, just in case. I will create a new acc for communication.

I have to put a lot of trust in you, would be nice if you could do the same:
192NkWknChagycpWxprU5Z5KZ69XzMQExc

I will send the details asap.

I replied (PM #2704282)

Quote from: Quickseller on August 13, 2014, 08:16:34 PM

Quote from: zedicus on August 13, 2014, 07:50:20 PM

Hmmm... ok, if we make 50:50 on sig campaign?
You have to give me also your email address, just in case. I will create a new acc for communication.

I have to put a lot of trust in you, would be nice if you could do the same:
192NkWknChagycpWxprU5Z5KZ69XzMQExc

I will send the details asap.

if you wanted to go 50/50 on a sig campaign for one month I can do that. It would likely end up being ~.24 max. I will set the payout address to an address that I control and will send half to that address. If you want to have the address that I send to changed I would need a signed message to make sure it is you making the request. If I can get 400 posts by the 17th for PD I will send you 1/2 and that will be the end of our agreement (I wits still own the account).

If you feel comfortable sending first then send me the credentials and am alternate account to contact you on (and please confirm the above address is where you want payment sent to). If you are not comfortable with this then contact [redacted] and we can use escrow.

I don't have an email that I can give out but I do check this account regularly.

I altered the above PM to remove the escrow member that I suggested we use. Some time later after payment was made to escrow I receive the following PM from him (PM#2704883)

Quote from: zedicus on August 13, 2014, 10:37:30 PM

This is the address I gave him: [redacted]. I already sent him my pass.

I guess it will be done in the next few hours.

I edited this post to remove the BTC address that he provided. The escrow provider had gone offline for some time and I eventually get the following PM (PM# 2705006) - note there were other PMs sent/received in-between this, however they would likely not affect my case one way or another.

Quote from: zedicus on August 13, 2014, 11:16:27 PM

I clicked on "Forgot pass?" and received a link via email to reset...

Lets wait what [redacted] has to say

I have edited the PM to remove the name of the escrow provider that was used. He had previously told me that the escrow had changed the password but not the email address. I suspect that bayuo PMed theymos a signed message to have his email address reset very soon after he provided the credentials to the escrow and theymos was quick to reset it, however this is speculation.

Some time later I received the following PM from the escrow (PM# 2705742)

Quote from: [redacted

link=action=profile;u=[redacted] date=1407986990]
....snip....(above this line was us confirming the details of the TX, the escrow payment address and the TX when payment was sent)...end snip...
I just tested the password and it did not work zedicus I have your bitcoin address to release the funds when the correct password is provided I will update it to a new temporary password to provide to quickseller. After I have released the account to him I will release the payment to you.

I would not have a problem if badbear (or anyone else who had access to PMs to verify the validity of the above PMs (when [redacted] and snip was used it will not match however this should be obvious).

Quote from: $username on September 08, 2014, 09:33:25 AM

How to hack Bitcointalk accounts and keep them

1. Hack account.
2. Pretend to 'sell' your hacked account to someone else (that someone else being yourself, or a friend, etc)
3. When original account owner comes back and sends signed message for account restoration, claim that you legitimately bought the accoutn.
4. theymos doesn't restore the account back to the original owner
5. profit!

@TF I am confident that the opposite happened.

A more accurate representation of what he was likely trying to have happen was:
1. Sell account for well under market value knowing an account buyer would likely jump at the opportunity
2. Pretend that account was hacked
3. Once the transfer of ownership of the account is complete and payment is received from escrow or the buyer PM theymos claiming account was hacked
4. theymos resets email to the previous owners email address
5. profit!

Quote from: hilariousandco on September 08, 2014, 09:40:43 AM

Was it signed up on PD before he claimed it was hacked or did the account sign up after?

It was signed up after. Please see above PMs showing how this was part of the original agreement.

Quote from: Tomatocage on September 08, 2014, 08:47:43 PM

Quote from: zedicus on September 08, 2014, 01:34:13 PM

There is compelling evidence to show that the OP sold this account and is now fraudently trying to restore it after receiving the payment. The negotiations took three days, the OP's account was created on the last day of negotiations after the deal was made.

The length people go to scam on this forum is incredible.

Thanks for letting us know that's a purchased account.

@tomatocage - please remove the negative trust. He is not trying to conduct business with the subject account (at least nothing that has been posted in public). Your trust feedback says you wold not trust him with anything because the account is purchased. I would think that you would also not trust anyone who has not publicly conducted business on the forum/btc-otc (you would probably want either use escrow or for him to go first), however you do not give any negative trust to any of them. He does not have any meaningful positive trust that would allow others to think he is trustworthy. You may or may not believe me but I have sold a lot of accounts on here and none of them have been used to scam (none of them have received negative trust trusted or untrusted or a scam accusation that I can see - yes I check periodically). Most of them are used for signature campaigns. Hero accounts are generally sought after because of the prestige they offer, people tend to respect (but not trust) people posting from a hero account. If a person is to try to scam with a purchased account then they would need to scam at least the amount they purchased the account for, but also risk that amount as if someone thinks they are trying to scam they will get legitimate negative trust and lose their investment. Your negative trust makes his trust show as red which takes away the prestige of having a hero account. I think you should remove your negative trust.

@ABitNut your negative trust says that the account is purchased and being used on a signature campaign. I really don't think this is a reason to not trust someone. A purchased account on a signature campaign is providing advertising to the person paying for him signature. A purchased account will likely add to conversations that would likely not otherwise be had because of the incentive to contribute. I do not think this is a valid reason to give negative trust. I think you should remove the trust you left zedicus.

@TF Your negative trust says that the original owner has offered to pay the current owner the price he paid for it. As per bayuo's above post zedicus offered to sell the account back to him at the price that he paid for it. Bayuo replied with what essentially was zero interest in trying to reach an agreement. I think you should remove the negative trust.

@zedicus - having it be suspected that an account is sold, and the account admitting to it being sold are two very different things. The selling of accounts is allowed and is within the forum rules, however many people do not like it when an account is sold, they tend to think it will automatically be used to scam. As badbear said above, this mentality is bad and will do long term harm to the community. It was already established that your account was not going to be taken from you. Like I said in the PM I sent you, I would strongly recommend that you use escrow if bayuo is going to buy the account from you as I very much do not trust him.

TL;DL - bayuo PMed me 3 days prior to selling me the zedicus account. He sold it to me with the intention of having the email reset so he could steal the BTC that I paid for it. When this did not work he went public and tried to get the upper hand to force me to sell it back to him at the price I paid for it (I declined because it would mean he would lose nothing when he failed to scam successfully). Examples of trying to get an upper hand, telling people to have stunna not payout the earnings from the signature campaign, asking mods to ban the account, trying to get people to negative trust the account.

Like I said before I am fine with any mod with PM access to verify the above quoted PMs are accurate. I am also curious to know if the email was ever changed on the zedicus account prior to it being sold, or if the email was ever reset via a signed message (I think the chances of getting an answer on this are low).