Quote from: wachtwoord on September 09, 2014, 12:13:52 AM

Quote from: Adrian-x on September 09, 2014, 12:11:18 AM

Quote from: JorgeStolfi on September 09, 2014, 12:00:22 AM

Perhaps an example helps.

Suppose @RPietila is now in the US (to simplify the example) and wants to buy a bottle of fine French wine that costs 500$ if paid in cash at the store -- just the current market price of 1 BTC -- with free delivery to @RPietila's location. The wine merchant "accepts bitcoin" through Bitpay.

GOING THROUGH BITCOIN:

Years ago, when the price was 3$/BTC, all fees included, @Rpietila bought (say) 1.03 BTC for 3.09$

Today, @Rpietila clicks the bitcoin payment option and is directed to a Bitpay form that specifies the amount of bitcoin he must send, which is 1 BTC plus (say) 0.03 BTC to cover all the costs and fees.

@Rpietila transfers 1.03 BTC to the Bitpay address, shown on the form. Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

Bitpay sends 500$ to the wine merchant's bank account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.

Bitpay sends the 1.03 BTC to Bitstamp and puts it up for sale. Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

@JayJuanGee deposits 520$ into his Bitstamp account. Pays a bank transfer fee for that, let's say 5$.

@JayJuanGee buys the 1.03 BTC for 515$ (suppose that, by miracle, the price hasn't changed). Pays a trading fee on that, let's say another 5$.

@JayJuanGee withdraws the 1.03 BTC. Let's suppose there is no fee for that.

@Bitpay now has 515$ in its Bitstamp account. Withdraws 510$ to its bank account and pays a withdrawal/bank transfer fee of $5.

NET RESULT:

Bitpay paid 505$ (including one bank fee) and received 510$ (after all Bitstamp fees). The 5$ difference is their processing fee.

@RPietila paid 3.09$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$. He has the same amount of bitcoins that he would have if he did not buy those 1.03 BTC way then.

@JayJuanGee paid 525$ for the privilege of paying the rest of @Rpietila's wine bill (496.91$), plus three bank transfer fees, the Bitstamp trading fee, and the Bitpay processing fee; but he now has 1.03 BTC more in his hoard, nominally worth 515$, that he may be able to sell to @Erdogan tomorrow and thus pass that privilege on to him.

WITHOUT GOING THROUGH BITCOIN

@Rpietila clicks the bank payment option and gets the wine merchant's bank account #.

@RPietila sends 500$ to that account, pays a bank transfer fee of 5$.

NET RESULT:

@RPietila paid 505$ and got to enjoy a bottle of fine wine worth 500$.

CONCLUSION: Left as an exercise.

You forget Years ago, the price of a fine wine worth $50, and it's the fact it now costs $500, that we all want Bitcoin. Bitpay, are just working on ways to get you to spend your bitcoins nothing more nothing less, and they have to make a profit doing it or they'll disappear.

The fees in this example are completely ridiculous. It is clear Jorge never bought Bitcoin. $5 to buy a Bitcoin? Get real.

AND Jorge, go out there and try earn a living, when I sell something to someone in the UK and they pay with PayPal, I pay over 4% to PayPal for the privilege - when doing business in CAD (the guy in the UK has to pay Paypal's GBP - CAD rate. if I take a EFT in the UK there is no bank fee. (BitPay just do local transfers at a fraction of the cost.)

if I do bank to bank transfer i pay $60 and if over $5000 I then pay fee and a % of the total sent.