Quote from: rikkejohn on September 09, 2014, 12:29:12 AM

I guess this is a project for people that made money by doing nothing very much in 2011.

It is possible that you are very right and this is a great insight. There is a kind of group that I feel connected to, consisting of people like aminorex, NewLiberty, (I don't want to add the names of not-so-public supporters), and people whom I know locally in Finland. The defining characteristics are that we are typically not old money, so the Bitcoin rally in 2010-2013 has changed our life, but we are also not nerds, just ordinary 30-50 yo adults who could invest a few thousand and not panic about it, resulting in that we still have hundreds if not thousands of BTC.

The willingness to change the world is a great motivation in us. Now Bitcoin has given new resources. Many have been searching for altcoins, but what's been offered did not interest us for a long time, as with a few exceptions, all altcoins have made terrible loss in their lifetime, and the high hopes of newcomers typically gone in vain. We have been able to see if there is no staying power, and invested only little, if anything, and watched the scene in sadness.

Then Monero comes and either analytically or intuitively sweeps our market niche with a promise of an anonymous coin, with potential to change the world, with an upright devteam and fair distribution. Knowing the mind of each other in our "group" (the "group" is just defined by being a set of people that think likewise) we rush to buy Monero, since the others will certainly do the same and of course we make money by doing it first

My buying only really started in July when the 231 bottom was made. The previous months I was observing, very positive, but unwilling to commit.

This accumulation to long-term hoards has continued all this time, price has been very stable, and volume brisk. My predictions that our group's purchasing pressure overwhelms the inflation from mining have been unfounded, and likewise the doomsayers' predictions of lower and lower prices have not materialized. What has happened instead, is massive concentration of price in BTC0.004, which is the all-time-average, the current price, and the wedge closing point from the trends of higher lows and lower highs. Technically, it will soon break. Up or down, but with a massive move. Unless it stays in exactly BTC0.004 forever.

Quote from: kennyP on September 09, 2014, 01:43:50 AM

There are some true believers here, but you're right, some guys who made a load of paper wealth through nothing more than luck and good fortune hearing about bitcoin earlier than others do seem to think that their success was actually due to their above average investing abilities. A bit like taking investment advice from someone who won powerball jackpot lottery.

This is not really the way things happen in life. It is part luck (to be born in 1st world), but most part your choice to hang out with friends who follow tech. Then they tell you about Bitcoin. It is part luck (if you are minor and absolutely broke), but most part your choice to have money to invest and developed skills to understand it. It is part luck (if this is your first investment ever in something you don't understand) but most part your choice to throw money in fringe projects in carefully calculated small quantities, and then not worry about it.

It is no part luck if you were able to see Bitcoin was conquering the world in 2011. For most of us, it was about the choices that we had made in life that accumulated and made it much more probable to invest in 2011, and then hold through the days that took the price to half even twice the same day, and other things that the newbies don't know. My involvement in Bitcoin was certainly not luck, I take a methodical approach in investing and even in 2012, I lost $80,000 in several investments that went badly. Without investing into these stuff several times a year, I would not have invested into Bitcoin either.

Maybe somebody got in lucky, first buying, then losing the keys being thus unable to sell until now.

But my odds were stacked in 10,000:1 in my favor. And after that guy has sold, I still own them.

Quote from: AnonyWince on September 09, 2014, 04:36:29 AM

This is too important to not make 100% clear.

Quote from: rpietila on September 08, 2014, 09:03:13 PM

The devs need to do their job, they don't have time for the economy, and they are not competent in it (also whales often suck at coding, like me).

I for example am competent at both. You were just lucky that I had been too sick to code.

You also have 1 sigma higher IQ than me, it is not fair to use yourself as an example. Also I don't rejoice in your sickness.

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Quote from: rpietila on September 08, 2014, 09:03:13 PM

Whales are the wealthy and well-connected businessmen that make things happen.

Your model of the hackerdom, crypto-currency, the knowledge age, the future, and investing in decentralized technology is fundamental flawed.

Precisely Bitcoin and Monero are rich boy clubs and this is why they are going no where. Bitcoin and Monero are driven by investors, not by users. They are investment pumps, not currencies. Perhaps all of the crypto-currencies to date have been investment pumps. Perhaps BBR and James are experimenting to create features and try to discover what will drive user adoption. I am not saying they will succeed, because I am not following their work.

I have outlined above what kind of sound, established, (moderately) wealthy, intellectually curious, people started to concentrate in Bitcoinworld in 2011 and who have now changed the big toe of their right foot to Monero with 1-5% of their capital, ready to give that leg more weight if Monero can take it. We believe the leadership is there and MEW is one initiative to create an actual, functioning, governance in a coin, based on the wishes of the owners.

As for hackerdom, I am not too much into it. I am building an economy that grows bigger and is able to absorb the imploding dollar economy as soon as possible. I admire the hackers similar way as engineers - if they create something that works, and does it elegantly.

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Lazy capital that wants to smoke a cigar while instructing the busy-bee worker devs doesn't build a damn thing. Here follows my canonical references. Ignore them at your peril. This is will be my final warning. I am doing this as a service to you and to try to earn the donation you made to me. A true friend is one who speaks up when he thinks you are wrong.

It is only your lack of experience that you think I am not doing useful work.

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Edit: I am reading the pulse of the community-at-large and I think you are Monero's worst enemy.

Once MEW gets up and running, we will have to select people to be the community public speakers. If the real opinion of the community is that I should limit speaking, I may do it. Voting does cost money, and requires that you own moneros, and that you are reputable. When these people decide somehing, I am very prone to listen. Currently obfuscation is the name of the game and all the trolling against Monero could have been bought by $500. MEW is really the answer to this.

Quote from: ExtremeFacials.com on September 09, 2014, 04:55:33 AM

Quote from: rpietila on September 08, 2014, 09:03:13 PM

Whales are the wealthy and well-connected businessmen that make things happen.

I'm embarrassed for you, do you realise how ridiculous that sounds coming after your recent XMR pump fest? What you should be saying is whales are the corrupt exploiters that have almost destroyed our planet and human civilisation.

By subscribing to a destructive ideology, yes. Those "whales" are a sad species, though. They are like "sheep-whales", led to slaughter by their puppet-masters. (Maybe I really need a new term, yes - ) my whales are dynamic, well-conncted humans, who know how things are handled in the outside world, cunning as a fox, innocent as a dove. The Leaders. The ones that anything, whatever it is, needs, to have any chance to succeed in this evil world that is quick to snuff all initiatives that threaten the status quo.

I have no idea what is XMR pump fest. Perhaps you can refer to some specific time in the market or anything..?

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The greedy 1% that owns most of the world's wealth are the whales you speak of, but most people hate them with a passion.

I cannot make it untrue that 50% of monero are also owned by 1% of the people. There is no mechanism that would preserve people's liberty and produce a different wealth distribution.

What is the source of this hate? I am among every 1% that can be calculated. I have never in my life scammed anyone or done non-voluntary transactions, or any other crime against other people. Everything that I own I have earned in trade with other people, typically so that they come to me. Why do you hate me?

Also greed is that "you desire something greatly that others have" Of course sometimes I catch myself from this sin, but never has the object of the greed been money or anything that money can buy. How about your greed? You ever wished to have something that does not belong to you?