Quote from: supranetico on September 17, 2014, 12:50:38 PM

Quote from: Nxtblg on September 16, 2014, 07:20:31 PM

Quote from: supranetico on September 16, 2014, 05:47:12 PM

Really appreciate this post even though I even called you suspicious on the Simgate asset and jl777hodl having majority of them.

Water under the digital bridge.

Thank you

Quote from: Nxtblg on September 16, 2014, 07:20:31 PM

Quote from: supranetico on September 16, 2014, 05:47:12 PM

The evidence is clearly from the fact that cross asset holds in cases exceeds 50% which should be suspicious in itself but I guess we on BCT are so blind with "reputation only" that it requires empirical evidence from me and not from jl777. It is at best a "surmised" explanation.

Let me be more precise - this time briefly.

All you have at this point is evidence that there's cross-ownership. In and of itself, all you've shown is that James' assets are indistinguishable from a collection that in part serves as a set of holding companies. Holding companies are 100% legitimate in the outside world, and have been so for ~ a century if not more.

Sorry, but to someone who uses Occam's Razor in my admittedly pro-James way you've only demonstrated that James has a liking for a complex cross-ownership structure whose assets are a hybrid between operating and holding. In my opinion, that's all you have. As for anything that would demonstrate shenanigans with respect to valuations, I saw nothing. Hence my admittedly strict use of the word "surmise."

But before I go, I did compose that "unreasonable" part as a disguised warning to you. There are some people around here that are demanding, and you might find yourself feeling obliged to work a lot for free without quite knowing why. "Know When To Draw The Line."

Um, no, I have more than enough evidence and its all there in the op. They say "devil is in the details" and it would get an astute thinker to go through whats been presented and what I am getting at. I think the op already says something along the line that - "you might interpret what has been written in your own way. but if you need help get someone else to help you". most of the assets from jl777 are holding companies and holding companies holding another companies holding another companies are fishy even in the real world - in a "ponzi" kind of way.

I like that you admit to the colored glasses but then in a similarly expressed opinion, I would say I am not pro or anti anyone, but then people find it difficult to believe as I am obviously spreading FUD (it is a newbie account right? so why bother).

The only person, I actually engaged was Este Nuno, because he wanted "proofs", I even called him a moron for doing that. If he is happy with what is there in front of him and wants to invest, it was his prerogative. This has been repeated a large number of times. People who want details can dig and find out. I for one, frankly don't have the time to spoon feed the details. Hence giving up on replying to him. Hell I might even lock this thread for good cause there is no more discussion required. Anyone who wants to know more can do their own research.
Still thanks for the warning.

I think NxtBlg said it best here:

Quote from: Nxtblg on September 16, 2014, 07:20:31 PM

Sorry, but to someone who uses Occam's Razor in my admittedly pro-James way you've only demonstrated that James has a liking for a complex cross-ownership structure whose assets are a hybrid between operating and holding. In my opinion, that's all you have. As for anything that would demonstrate shenanigans with respect to valuations, I saw nothing.

If you think the accusations that you've made logically follow from the evidence that you presented, even in a loose sense, then no one is going to convince you otherwise. Because if you go from the spreadsheet to thinking that James is literally running a long con scam in which he intends to bilk massive amounts of money from people who invest in his assets, then you're obviously deriving that based on the assumption that his intentions have been bad from the beginning.

Where as I've come to believe that it's fairly unlikely that his intentions are bad in anyway(and are likely to be good), based on how I've seen him conduct his business dealing thus far and how he's dealt with people in matters related to money. That's my opinion of him at the moment, subject to change if I observe him doing things that might conflict with my current judgement of him as a person.

As time goes on we will see what happens and how James acts in relation to his business dealings. At this point all eyes are on him now in the crypto community. Not just the NXT community. So I'm certain this will not be the last of people accusing him of doing wrong. Everyone will be watching, everything is recorded on public ledgers for all to see as you've shown here with your break down of the asset cross ownership. So far i'm unconvinced of any of the claims that multiple anonymous accounts have made against him thus far, but I'm watching just as everyone else will be.