Quote from: AdamWhite on September 18, 2014, 01:46:27 AM

Man get over yourself.. If you don't like a topic no one is forcing you to click and participate

This is not about me, the only one trying to make it about me is you.

Quote from: smooth on September 18, 2014, 02:03:19 AM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on September 18, 2014, 01:39:46 AM

how big of a clusterfuck this subforum would be

It's somehow not Huh

You cut off the important part of the quote which made my point... if every ALT coin used this subforum as their main forums. Do I really need to explain this to you guys? wtf.. I estimate there are over 500 Alt coins. If every one of them had only 1 thread and made 1 post per day, each day's posts would go all the way to page 13. That sounds like a clusterfuck to me. If Monero is successful, you can be sure coins in the future will be replicating its marketing techniques a la spamming this subforum.

Quote from: tx42 on September 18, 2014, 01:48:49 AM

So the whole point of the fud post is to get back at people making hype posts?

What a fucking waste of time.

Not necessarily.. I derailed the thread. BCX may very well have found a vulnerability.. I have no clue.

Quote from: smooth on September 18, 2014, 02:06:11 AM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on September 18, 2014, 01:31:51 AM

Most of them don't realize PoW mining is hugely flawed and a better alternative needs to be conceived.

I agree, except that all the proposed alternatives so far have been worse.

My position is that some sort of Satoshi-level breakthrough is needed to move things forward, not yet another attempt to beat on the PoS or Ripple dead horses with minor tweaks. You have 1000 PoS scam coins in the ANN section if that's what you want.

The Monero project is not opposed to pursuing that, but we don't have any such ideas at the present time. We do have ideas to improve other things, such as some aspects of mining (i.e. tweaks on PoW). We certainly don't think that anonymity is the only way we should innovate.

Worse is a strong statement. PoS and its variants have weaknesses, just like PoW has its weaknesses. However, both are secure enough to have survived this long without any major attacks. Most of the PoS vulnerabilities people harp on it for are just as unlikely as a 51% attack on a well secured PoW network. Both PoW and PoS have their weaknesses, but I just can't get past the amount of energy that is wasted with PoW and see PoS and its variants as better solutions. Whereas some see the PoS variant cup half empty, I see it half full. Imagine if all of the money spent on securing PoW cryptos was spent on improving the infrastructure or investing in the coins themselves.

I am not interested in PoS scam coins, there are just as many PoS scam coins as there are PoW scam coins. I am however interested in coins that tweak and improve upon PoS in some way, as a more secure version of PoS can pop up from all of these different iterations. I am confident it is not "a dead horse", and I have been told by people much smarter than I that there are ways to fix the problems with PoS as it exists today- which as they exist they are still pretty damn secure seeing as though they are still around and thriving today.

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on September 18, 2014, 02:15:13 AM

I see... so you think Monero should die because it isn't incorporating every gimmick feature you think is important.

Thanks for proving my point about Monero supporters claiming all innovation is gimmicks.

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on September 18, 2014, 02:15:13 AM

Careful, you're starting to sound like a BCN troll. How many of those "innovative" alts you support happen to be BTC forks? Oh that's right... all of them.

The only two coins I support now are not BTC forks.. BitsharesX and Nxt.. and they are both innovating in more ways than one. Furthermore, they are focused on innovating and improving upon their original innovations. Whereas most mainstream coins consider all innovations as gimmicks, they embrace innovation. It is the innovators that will push cryptocurrencies to the next level, not the naysayers that are fine with cryptocoins just the way they are. Some people might not want more (or improved) features, but on the other hand a lot of people do, otherwise the more innovative coins wouldn't have been able to achieve the market cap and community that they have. It is silly to only cater to one half of the population when you can cater to both and the ones that don't want or need those features/improvements don't have to use them.

Quote from: Johnny Mnemonic on September 18, 2014, 02:29:52 AM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on September 18, 2014, 01:31:51 AM

Most of them don't realize PoW mining is hugely flawed and a better alternative needs to be conceived.

To create something out of nothing would violate the first law of thermodynamics. PoW is the only solution because creating value in a decentralized free market depends on the expense of resources.

Please describe how PoW is "flawed" and how an alternative is even possible (hint: it isn't).

You need to be more open minded and hopeful that there is a solution. If everyone thought this way then Satoshi would of never made the huge innovation that was Bitcoin. Everyone thought a trustless decentralized currency was impossible until he came along and did it.

First, there is no reason that consensus has to be reached by mass extreme consumption of electricity and a large waste of processing power, which is one of the major flaws of PoW.

Second, Most PoW zealots can't seem to see into the future like I (and a lot of other people.. the PoS crowd) can in regards to the inevitable centralization of PoW mining. No PoW algorithm can be ASIC proof.. it is not possible. Due to this and economies of scale, all forms of PoW mining will slowly go from decentralized to centralized as large mining conglomerates take over the block chain. The people with the most money to spend and the cheapest power will make all mom and pop miners unprofitable, and at that point they will stop investing/buying ASICs. Over time the block chain will become more and more centralized until it is so centralized that they can do many nefarious things, such as raise transaction fees on a whim by only including transactions into blocks that have X amount of fees, because they decide they are not making enough profit.

Third, once a PoW cryptocurrency exits its inflationary stage of the money supply distribution, it is possible that the transaction fees are not enough to compensate the miners and keep the blockchain secure. We recently saw this with Dogecoin which was one of the first ones in which their emission curve has dramatically stabilized, and they were forced to choose in between death or merge mining with a larger chain. They are still inflationary and can't afford to pay miners enough to secure their chain, imagine how hard of a task that will be for some coins that at some point no more coins will ever be minted. The market caps of PoW currencies and the adoption in the form of every day use will be mandatory for these cryptocurrencies to survive. No one really knows is mass adoption is likely or possible as it is all speculation at this point, but if they don't achieve that then PoW cryptos will be in trouble at some point down the road. Even if they achieve mass adoption, it is still speculation whether or not that will be enough to pay miners to secure the block chains. PoW cryptos may one day be much more expensive to used than PoS cryptos for this reason.

The resources and processing power wasted, the inevitable centralization, and the sustainability are three of the largest issues I see with PoW in the future. I am sure I am forgetting one or two glaring issues as well, but I will leave it here for now.

Quote from: tx42 on September 18, 2014, 02:47:23 AM

Quote from: CoinHoarder on September 18, 2014, 01:39:46 AM

If Monero solved all current problems with cryptocoins, was the most innovative alt coin, made everyone millionaires, achieved world peace, and could shoot gold bullion out of its ass, I would still feel the same way.

Be honest with yourself. You'd feel differently if it could shoot gold bullion out of its ass. We all would.

Lol, OK... I admit that would be pretty damn cool.