Quote from: Wandererfromthenorth on December 24, 2014, 04:32:51 PM

Quote from: aminorex on December 24, 2014, 04:10:22 PM

Quote from: Wandererfromthenorth on December 24, 2014, 10:41:19 AM

Monero is junk.

I am convinced, by facts and logic, that it is the best investment on the planet at this time. If it goes lower, it becomes even better.

Fact: U.N. estimates global black market at 2 tn USD in 2012.
Fact: PQ=MV
Fact: Cryptonote is the only dark transaction protocol providing useful levels of unlinkability and untraceability.
Fact: XMR is the leading cryptonote coin by orders of magnitude in liquidity.
Fact: XMR is not usable by non-technical persons without trusting a web wallet today, but will be when GUI, DB, and multi-sig are officially released.
Logic: Dark markets will adopt the best usable privacy and hence PQ is assured to approach some fraction of 2tn
Fact: Multinational corporations require to maintain secrecy in their internal cross-border transactions.
Logic: When XMR liquidity is high enough, it will be adopted by multinational corporations for internal cross-border transactions
Fact: Nation-states and the central banks which own them seek to enslave the planet, taking control of financial assets at will.
Logic: Wealth will migrate to dark storage, and when XMR has sufficient liquidity, it will be the dominant form of dark storage.

There is a clear three stage path from miniscule to gigantic, each step of which bears a fundamental inevitability. It is possible although unlikely for an alternative dark ledger to take the lead, but until then, XMR has the most asymmetric risk/return in the history of finance.

The points you made and their relevance are questionable, but even if we accept them all:

-Dark Wallet is being developed for BTC. Once that works there is no point at all in adopting a lower liquidity lower confidence altcoin that will basically be a clone of BTC.
-Monero shares the same problems of Proof of Work coins (including BTC of course) so if BTC dies because of that (or any reason at all intrinsic to BTC), Monero is no different. If BTC survives and Dark Wallet can be used for anonymity on BTC, Monero will not have a purpose anymore.

Quoting smooth (On of the core developers of XMR) about this subject:

Quote from: smooth on September 18, 2014, 12:20:34 PM

Quote from: meanig on September 18, 2014, 11:58:33 AM

In a practical sense how is Amero different from Darkwallet?

Darkwallet uses a form of stealth addresses that is similar to Monero. This won't work with regular Bitcoin users though, you will have to use regular address unless both parties are using Darkwallet (or some wallet using a compatible stealth scheme). In a sense this feature makes Darkwallet a bit like an altcoin that is sharing the Bitcoin blockchain. If you are exchanging with regular Bitcoin users you will lose the unlinkability benefit of stealth addresses (but you can still do it and you can keep unlinkability if you never reuse addresses).

Darkwallet uses CoinJoin style mixing. This has issues that have been widely discussed elsewhere, especially when there aren't a large number of people wanting to mix at the exact same time. (There is a rendezvous process in CoinJoin where people making truncations at the same time are mixed together.) This can be still be used even with regular Bitcoin addresses, but only if the sender is using Darkwallet. A Darkwallet user who receives coins from a non-Darkwallet user will receive non-mixed coins, and also will potentially have address linkability if the address is reused. By contrast Monero uses ring signatures for mixing which doesn't require a rendezvous process the way CoinJoin does, but does have some other issues (some discussed in MRL-0001)

Since Darkwallet is based on Bitcoin it shares the rest of Bitcoins advantages and disadvantages (biggest advantage being its relatively wide adoption, but again when interacting with non-DW users your feature set is reduced). Monero is a new code base that does some things differently (for example not having a fixed block size), which again has advantages and disadvantages. The relative immaturity of the code is a big disadvantage.

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Quote from: Wandererfromthenorth on December 24, 2014, 10:41:19 AM

Quote from: Bassica on December 24, 2014, 10:38:16 AM

Quote from: Wandererfromthenorth on December 24, 2014, 10:03:49 AM

Quote from: aminorex on December 24, 2014, 02:14:23 AM

Quote from: catena5260 on December 24, 2014, 02:08:12 AM

Quote from: explorer on December 24, 2014, 12:59:50 AM

Well this is boring. Go watch the XMR chart instead. Up 30% today Tongue

some days one altcoin rises a lot, but every day we see lots of alts going nowhere but down.

It is like gambling.

I could instead watch the guy that managed to win 1M from few dollars by winning a giant parlay

XMR is not a gamble: It's got the only viable tech for dark liquidity, and leads the market in software, liquidity, and social capital. XMR is not an "alt": It is an innovation on par with BTC in its sophistication and in its economic importance.

Monero is junk.
Stop listening to Risto and the others, they don't know what the hell they are talking about anymore.

Does "the others" include the core devs who are in contact with the xmr-devteam about the underlying technology? Tongue

Anyone that thinks Monero is a good investment XD

In addition to bassica, I suggest you read the comments of this topic: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2oh7vq/toward_unlinkable_bitcoin_transactions_andrew/

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Quote from: shmadz on December 24, 2014, 02:25:14 AM

Quote from: aminorex on December 24, 2014, 02:14:23 AM

Quote from: catena5260 on December 24, 2014, 02:08:12 AM

Quote from: explorer on December 24, 2014, 12:59:50 AM

Well this is boring. Go watch the XMR chart instead. Up 30% today Tongue

some days one altcoin rises a lot, but every day we see lots of alts going nowhere but down.

It is like gambling.

I could instead watch the guy that managed to win 1M from few dollars by winning a giant parlay

XMR is not a gamble: It's got the only viable tech for dark liquidity, and leads the market in software, liquidity, and social capital. XMR is not an "alt": It is an innovation on par with BTC in its sophistication and in its economic importance.

XMR questions: have you looked at that new web wallet? Is it secure? Is it traceable?

Can't say much about the security, but it's basicly like blockchain.info:

Quote

All of the heavy lifting is done client-side, which means that My Monero can never spend your funds on your behalf or without your authorisation.

Transactions of monero are not traceable/linkable in general. However, if you use a webwallet your IP may be logged, so if you really want to stay anonymous you should use TOR. The monero project itself is also working on i2p integration for monero: https://geti2p.net/nl/blog/post/2014/08/15/The-privacy-solutions-project

EDIT: For all the guys that think Monero is just another scam of the cryptonote/bytecoin team -> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740112.msg9727799#msg9727799