Quote from: cypherdoc on September 23, 2014, 04:17:31 PM

Quote from: shields on September 23, 2014, 04:08:14 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on September 23, 2014, 03:31:06 PM

Quote from: shields on September 23, 2014, 03:16:12 PM

cypherdoc I think you're maybe even over-analyzing why dollars beat gold as money. I suspect all it took was a new generation born into dollars not backed by anything. I'm middle aged and never was under any illusion fiat was backed by anything as I grew up, I never even saw gold in coin or bullion form in person until I bought a couple coins last year. For me growing up gold as money was something only in history books. Fiat was what I saw, you earned it and you spent it. Since inflation is generally so gradual in 1st world countries you don't notice it, and take it for granted.

In summary, all it takes is for people that used gold as money to die off, and for dollars to be 'good enough' as money for the average person.

that's clearly a factor as well as even i stated in this thread before. the reasons are multifactorial no doubt. this thread is long b/c there are lots of different ideas as to why it is happening and we are just trying to flush them all out in different ways and with different nuance.

i still think digital dollars and the speed with which they can be teleported to a crisis region to prevent massive dollar debt defaults is clearly a reason that enhances stability and recovery. gold can really only go up when there is instability and fear. whether you call it foul play, manipulation, or moral hazard doesn't matter. the main point being that it has defeated any significant advancement in the gold price by stopping any normal gold flows b/c gold is just too slow.

furthermore, i still think this dollar digitalization, or dollar hegemony if you prefer, is causing deflation on a broader scale. commodities continue to fall in price reflecting declining demand. the lack of wage increases for the broader population makes things too expensive for most.

how can Bitcoin help in deflation? by bringing fairness and mathematics to the table and by removing corruption and a small, elitist group of counterfeiters.

Yeah the digital dollar was a significant improvement to 'dollar' technology. Fiat in general tended to gradually improve in other ways too over time - smaller notes and coins, better counterfeit prevention etc, but the jump to digital - ATM machines, credit cards etc all helped push it further ahead of gold in practicality terms.

An interesting thought about the digital dollar though is that it helps the transition to crytpo. Kids growing up today will be used to digital money, they won't look on digital as a replacement for phsyical just as I didn't look at fiat as a replacement for gold - they'll grow up with the normality that digital balances on a screen are their money. The mental jump from digital fiat to digital cryptos is a small one from there.

yes, and ApplePay just served to further legitimize that trend. i find it interesting that they reopened their app store to Bitcoin wallets only 1-2 mo before their announcement.

They would not have released ApplePay if they did not think it could compete with and beat Bitcoin. And if they think that, then they feel that the wallet apps on the phone are not a threat to their ApplePay - it was bad PR and it was turning some of their users away, I guess they feel the trade off of allowing them is worth it.