Quote from: smooth on October 04, 2014, 12:31:28 AM

Quote from: TheFascistMind on October 04, 2014, 12:27:18 AM

Quote from: smooth on October 04, 2014, 12:14:36 AM

Quote from: TheFascistMind on October 04, 2014, 12:01:54 AM

I am 80% certain that this cultural stance is going to be why XMR is beaten by another effort that understands better how to spur innovation by not suppressing or expecting a Cathedral style of progression.

The cultural stance is not significantly distinguished from the range of cultures I've seen on other open source projects on which and with which I've worked, which is quite a few.

Your characterization of it as a cathedral is straw man.

Perhaps it is a cathedral compared to your internal mental model of what constitutes bazzaar-style development, but by the standards of reality it is not.

Reality is the bazaar has been ongoing on this forum for years now. And you can't stop it. Don't you see all the experimentation in altcoins and all the wide-open discussion of ideas?

Your microcosm is your reality, but it is not the only reality.

For example, you were overruled on higher level of perpetual debasement. Some other coin will do what XMR doesn't.

My point is also that the Inverse Commons is not just intra-project, rather it is also inter-projects (as in the distinction between intrastate and interstate).

XMR is competing for developer resources, not developers competing to code for XMR as is the case for Linus.

Quote from: smooth on October 04, 2014, 12:14:36 AM

Quote

You are equating the ability for a user to wait for say 6 confirmations to have a mathematically quantifiable probability of assurance, with the risk of a coin vulnerability allowing spends of any age to be double-spent (reverting a spend is double-spending).

No, I'm saying that any recipient of any coin is vulnerable to a chain fork, which is a judgement of the recipient that they have waited "long enough" for such a chain fork to become unlikely. I said nothing about 6 confirms. In practice recipients make their own judgement about number of confirms. In Bitcoin many use less, and in altcoins many require far more. In all cases there is likely some sort implicit or explicit fraud scoring, but that is really none of my business and is up to the recipients to sort out. Ring signatures do nothing to change this except what they are intended to do (inhibit tracing, and thus indirectly blacklisting), and nothing here is remotely specific to Monero.

Afaics, you entirely missed my point.

You had a category error. You compare quantifiable (known a priori) probability with attacks that have no quantifiable (no known a priori) probability of assurance. You compare from the perspective of the user a knowable and user-selected risk with an unknowable risk and no possible user choice (other than to divest).

There is no such error. The same exact risk in kind exists with every other coin (including Bitcoin). The only difference is one quantity (how plausible such a fork is to occur). That is a judgement of the coin recipient. If your suggestion to them is to not accept any such coins ever, that's a valid point of view, but it applies equally to other coins as it does to Monero. Nothing presented is specific to Monero, except as I said the relative impossibility of blacklisting. Perhaps your advice is to not accept coins that don't allow for blacklisting, or perhaps I am misinterpreting.

Sorry there is a category error.

You erroneously equated different categories of risk as I already explained.

Now you are moving the goal posts and saying that all coins have this risk. That is a different point. And that point fails for numerous reasons:

1. Some coins have much higher network hashrate (difficulty) thus can't be as realistically attacked by someone with BCX's level of alleged resources.

2. Non-Cryptonote coins do not have ring signatures which make the block chain untracable and thus make it implausible (or very difficult) to do manual repair by segregating the stolen coinbase and double-spent traces from the transactions you'd like to keep.

3. Non-Cryptonote coins do not have throw away 20% of the timestamp information upon difficulty adjustment. I know you think the vulnerability I have broad-sketched above is not sufficiently detailed to warrant any concern, but nevertheless this is a risk that doesn't exist in other coins.

4. BCX killed Auroracoin (which btw rpietila invested in and asked my opinion about and I warned him it would be a pump and dump) and now he tells you what the vulnerabilities of XMR are, so these have to be taken as slightly more credible than if randomjoeblow said it.

Thus from my perspective at least, it gives the appearance you are still doing FUD control and refusing to be open-minded, rational, and objective. And this is the cultural problem of Monero.