Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

What's interesting is days destroyed is basically at zero. All the coins being moved to exchanges to be sold are probably very new. The theory Chinese miners are selling to get their money offshore denominated in USD is pretty interesting.

I will keep coming back to BurtW's post on mining breakeven costs based around energy, which projects a mid October price of $233. If miner's are selling there comes a price point where buying is more cost effective than mining. I could see a bottom around $250.

Quote from: BurtW on September 02, 2014, 04:29:02 AM

When calculated in the OP over the time period from March 14, 2013 to March 13, 2014 the average increase in the difficulty and hash rate was 23.92% per adjustment period and the average length of each adjustment period was 11.38 days.

Recalculated over the period June 29, 2013 to June 29, 2014 it was 23.45% and 11.41 days.

Now, recalculating over the period August 24, 2013 to August 31, 2014 it is 21.12% and 11.63 days.

Assuming the network growth rate over the next year is the same as it was this last year we get:

Code:

Hash Rate Power Energy Cost Cost
Date Difficulty TH/s MW MWh $/Period $/BTC
--------- ------------------ ---------- ------ ---------- -------------- ----------
11-Sep-14 33,220,936,877 237,808 238 66,349 $6,634,853 $131.64
23-Sep-14 40,236,446,759 288,028 288 80,360 $8,035,984 $159.44
04-Oct-14 48,733,473,526 348,853 349 97,330 $9,733,002 $193.12
16-Oct-14 59,024,880,009 422,523 423 117,884 $11,788,392 $233.90
28-Oct-14 71,489,598,585 511,750 512 142,778 $14,277,833 $283.29
08-Nov-14 86,586,583,575 619,820 620 172,930 $17,292,988 $343.11
20-Nov-14 104,871,710,060 750,712 751 209,449 $20,944,876 $415.57
02-Dec-14 127,018,241,359 909,246 909 253,680 $25,367,960 $503.33
13-Dec-14 153,841,618,762 1,101,258 1,101 307,251 $30,725,098 $609.62
25-Dec-14 186,329,486,300 1,333,819 1,334 372,135 $37,213,544 $738.36
05-Jan-15 225,678,056,071 1,615,491 1,615 450,722 $45,072,202 $894.29
17-Jan-15 273,336,153,086 1,956,646 1,957 545,904 $54,590,430 $1,083.14
29-Jan-15 331,058,561,407 2,369,846 2,370 661,187 $66,118,694 $1,311.88
09-Feb-15 400,970,635,767 2,870,303 2,870 800,815 $80,081,465 $1,588.92
21-Feb-15 485,646,557,708 3,476,447 3,476 969,929 $96,992,858 $1,924.46
05-Mar-15 588,204,117,648 4,210,593 4,211 1,174,756 $117,475,554 $2,330.86
16-Mar-15 712,419,512,763 5,099,775 5,100 1,422,837 $142,283,732 $2,823.09
28-Mar-15 862,866,387,600 6,176,732 6,177 1,723,308 $172,330,835 $3,419.26
08-Apr-15 1,045,084,236,901 7,481,119 7,481 2,087,232 $208,723,207 $4,141.33
20-Apr-15 1,265,782,371,309 9,060,961 9,061 2,528,008 $252,800,823 $5,015.89
02-May-15 1,533,086,956,002 10,974,431 10,974 3,061,866 $306,186,635 $6,075.13
13-May-15 1,856,840,218,301 13,291,983 13,292 3,708,463 $370,846,321 $7,358.06
25-May-15 2,248,962,841,151 16,098,949 16,099 4,491,607 $449,160,670 $8,911.92
06-Jun-15 2,723,892,885,897 19,498,682 19,499 5,440,132 $544,013,236 $10,793.91
17-Jun-15 3,299,117,405,623 23,616,363 23,616 6,588,965 $658,896,517 $13,073.34
29-Jun-15 3,995,816,323,188 28,603,604 28,604 7,980,405 $798,040,547 $15,834.14
10-Jul-15 4,839,642,281,734 34,644,038 34,644 9,665,686 $966,568,646 $19,177.95
22-Jul-15 5,861,665,181,962 41,960,074 41,960 11,706,861 $1,170,686,065 $23,227.90
03-Aug-15 7,099,516,184,307 50,821,092 50,821 14,179,085 $1,417,908,463 $28,133.10
14-Aug-15 8,598,773,298,472 61,553,356 61,553 17,173,386 $1,717,338,634 $34,074.18
26-Aug-15 10,414,639,578,109 74,552,032 74,552 20,800,017 $2,080,001,680 $41,269.87
07-Sep-15 12,613,975,712,232 90,295,733 90,296 25,192,510 $2,519,250,952 $49,985.14

In other words something has got to give by the end of the year, or actually before December 1

One problem I have with this is the assumption that big miners are in it for BTC and not fiat. I don't know everyone's motives but I am sure that for some it is an opportunistic business model (ie buy ASIC's, mine, sell, profit). As such what gives is price and it's a race to the bottom in terms of who has the cheapest electricity. Hardware is a sunk cost now, so it makes sense to continue to mine as long as your electicity costs less than than you can sell the BTC for, even if that means just minimising losses (on sunk costs), for all those miners whose goal is not to accumulate BTC.

We hear many times that miners will just hoard or switch off and buy instead. IMO only those that are true believers and not in it for fiat will do so. The rest will get what they can out of their equipment while they can. Many a bad investment decision has been made in the past and will be in the future in many industries. Why this mythical illusion that BTC is so different?

It looks very much like mining bubble to me

EDIT : In conclusion is it not a perfectly reasonable proposition that difficulty could nosedive to match current price as inefficient miners who are in it for fiat simply switch off their hardware at some point and exit the game or wait for their equipment to become profitable again, if ever? The assumption that they will simply buy BTC instead seems deeply flawed. Meanwhile the BTC inflation rate (supply) will remain constant. In the absence of new demand where does price go ?

I agree that the idea that miners 'start buying' is deeply flawed but when mining becomes unprofitable they will stop mining, supply will be reduced and the price will stabilise. Is this not part of the big "Satoshi Plan" of checks and balances for the functioning of BTC anyway; at the moment we have a confluence of negative factors: too much supply and negative sentiment due to Gox, Neo et al.

When the miners stop the flow of coins the price will find equilibrium and sentiment will return with a stable price.

Simples.

No ... until the next halving, supply is a constant no matter how many miners mine or what the hash rate is. The unprofitable miners will stop mining, maybe, but that has no effect on the BTC inflation/emission rate, which remains a constant until the next halving regardless of how many miners there are. Whatever the hash rate, the same number of BTC will be mined in the same time (excluding small variance between difficulty adjustments). This is a fundamental part of the BTC protocol - the emission rate is a constant until the 'halvings'

Supply is fixed in this equation, re how many BTC are mined. The variables are difficulty and hash rate, but these have no effect on supply, just on profitability of miners.

If every other miner shut down and you and I could mine the (approx) 3600 BTC per day on laptops once the difficulty rapidly adjusted downwards.

Sure, the network would be massively open to a 51% attack, but I am taking it to en extreme to demonstrate what I believe is a poorly understood function of the BTC supply/demand equilibrium

We'd better get the entire 21M of the buggers mined then and get things simplified then.