Quote from: the joint on October 06, 2014, 09:36:48 PM

Quote from: Amph on October 06, 2014, 09:22:22 PM

Quote from: the joint on October 06, 2014, 07:42:44 PM

Quote from: Amph on October 05, 2014, 09:57:42 AM

Quote from: the joint on October 05, 2014, 07:54:24 AM

Quote from: Amph on October 05, 2014, 07:03:06 AM

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Quote from: Amph on October 04, 2014, 09:22:33 PM

Quote from: Chuckee on October 03, 2014, 02:37:07 PM

Quote from: JimboToronto on October 03, 2014, 02:33:50 PM

Quote from: jcoin200 on October 03, 2014, 02:19:22 PM

they are losing money if they are holding btc.

You only lose when you sell for less than you paid.

Nobody has ever lost money by holding.

Please stop with this already. It's an unrealized loss, which doesn't make it any less real.

unrealized... how do you know that it won't go up again? magic ass ball? that thing is true, but maybe the sentence is not completed, i repeat it here

until there is a chance to go up again, you won't lose anything if you just hold and don't sell for less than you paid

Quote from: Sevvero on October 03, 2014, 02:36:13 PM

Quote from: JimboToronto on October 03, 2014, 02:33:50 PM

Quote from: jcoin200 on October 03, 2014, 02:19:22 PM

they are losing money if they are holding btc.

You only lose when you sell for less than you paid.

Nobody has ever lost money by holding.

Are you literally stupid?

I mean literally, like IQ under 90?

Because you do realise what unrealised losses are?

Or not?

How dumb are you?

read above and tell me how much is your QI now, i think is lower than 90, probably the same number without the zero

A few things about this post:

1) If you've been holding in a down market, then two bad things have happened to you. First, you've lost purchasing power. Second, you haven't even realized your loss so that you can write it off on your taxes this year. It's a really bad habit to get into to try to pull all sorts of mental gymnastics to try to convince yourself that you're a good investor and you're making money when your position is continually losing ground.

2) Saying "how do you know it won't go up again?" is a question that holds as much weight as "how do you know it won't keep going down?" It means nothing. There is no information to pull from it that can help you to make a rational decision. Furthermore, there are no magic rules of investing that dictate an investment must appreciate after significant periods of depreciation.

3) This is more of a personal observation, but I really think that a lot of people's investment decisions are heavily influenced by discussions on this forum, and not in a good way. I see a lot of permabulls and permabears, but it's shockingly uncommon to read posts that aren't emotionally loaded and don't veer to one extreme or the other. For a lot of people, there is no middle ground.

4) "Until there is a chance to go up again..."? What the hell? I don't even know where to begin with this. *Every* moment is a chance for BTC to up again. Where have you been the past 10-11 months? Bitcoin isn't dropping in price due to chance, just as Bitcoin didn't shoot past $1000 USD by chance. Focus on *real* things. Instead of thinking about the "chance" that BTC might go up again, maybe you should first ask yourself why you aren't buying all the BTC you can right now. It might be a good starting place as it may provide insight as to why everyone else isn't out buying up all the BTC.

5) Here's a thought experiment for you: How about you sell all of your belongings for BTC and hold them indefinitely? According to your logic, this will preserve your wealth for infinite time (as long as you don't sell). Ingenious, right? Roll Eyes

i'm in fact all in with btc(well not totally, i still have my house lol), i still think that in a market like this until you don't sell you can't lose, because the chance to see a pump again are high enough

you don't need a wall of text to explain this, it's so simple, and for your last sentence, i can just reply with "don't invest more than you can afford and bla bla", this doesn't make my point less valid at all

that quote is just misleading, it should be "until the coin isn't dead if you don't sell you don't lose anything", no one said that in that quote is implied that the coin can't die

If you can afford to do so and don't mind losing your investment, then that's fine. But your reply, "Don't invest more than you can afford and bla bla," is irrelevant to the issue of gain or loss. The question is whether holding in a down market yields a loss, not whether you're okay with it.

I think you're incorrect in that my last point doesn't make yours less valid. It does, because it's the exact same action you took to reach your current position, only to an extreme degree.

But seriously, dude, come on. Even though unrealized gains/losses function the same way in stock trading, bitcoins are currency! How are you going to sit there and tell me you haven't lost anything when you're holding money that's depreciating in value before your own eyes?!

well if you prefer i can tell you that i have less now because bitcoin declined , but it doesn't mean that i need to panic sell because of that, until i believe in it and i'm willing to hold my "lose" has a chance to come back

you know... "It's not dead until it's really dead"

All of that's fine, and I agree, it's just not what the issue originally was. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that holding somehow makes you immune to changes in the price-per-unit of your investment.

actually it's exactly the issue because...

it make me kinda immune if the coin survive and go up, which is what i believe; we continuously base our life on some assumptions, this is why life is a gamble itself

it's not absolutely immue, i could agree, but it is certainly relative

Here's the thing: I think you're smart enough that you do understand unrealized gains and losses, but to me it seems that you are (likely without realizing it) sugar coating the issue by whatever means possible, and it does your analysis a disservice.

First, let me say that I truly do not care whether you buy or sell, and in fact I do hope you make good, profitable trading decisions for yourself. All I'm suggesting is that you look at the way you're approaching the issue.

In your last post, you said, "It makes me kinda immune" and also "it's not absolutely immune" and also "certainly relative." And then, you bring up assumptions as if to say that you are forced between two assumptions, that either the price will continue to fall, or it will go up. And, since either is an unknown and it is an assumption, you feel comfortable in your position because for all you know it's just as good as the other one.

But what you're ignoring are the things that are knowable right now and that aren't assumptions. It's not a matter of perspective what unrealized gains and losses mean for your total and liquid assets. There is no ambiguity, only raw numbers.

I think you also know this too, but it just seems to me you're sacrificing what you know for what you don't.

i think you are not following me correctly

i'm not saying that there isn't a possibility that bitcoin won't die, i'm just saying that for now this possibility is zero, therefore holding is the best strategy, this imply that unti you don't sell at loss, you are not losing everything

there aren't things like "100% holding is bad or 100% selling is bad", you should just follow what you believe in a market like this