Quote from: Cameltoemcgee on October 29, 2014, 12:45:16 AM

I'm saying thats what i've seen, specifically in Central Kalimantan. If you don't think i'm capable of determining this that's fine with me, in which case i highly recommend you go and see for yourself. Just because it doesn't appear in western historic literature doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

Malaysian government is significantly less corrupt (and more functional) than Indonesian government which is why i referenced central Borneo(Kalimantan) instead of Malaysian Borneo. Where abouts in Guangdong did you stay?

I can't remember names of specific communities and google maps doesn't have anything aside from the major cities listed. I flew into Palangka Raya and spent a few months riding motorbikes around and staying with locals, visiting schools/orphanages and teaching children amongst other things.

The government does nothing except extract taxes in alot of those places (it really is nothing more than a mafia, watch "the art of killing" for a better idea of what goes on) sometimes not even that and the people have very little in the way of financial wealth yet they still do better at looking after underprivileged than we do.

It is okay to have opinions. However, the absence of empirical data or references in your arguments makes it difficult for me to address them.

Anyway, the average per capita income for Indonesia is $3,475 (about Rp42 million). The figure is highly skewed however, as the majority of high income citizens reside in Sumatra and Java. The taxation rate for those earning between Rp24 and Rp50 million is 0-5% (page 16). There are not many among Kalimantan's 15 million who actually qualify to pay taxes, as it is one of the poorest provinces in Indonesia - hence why the East Kalimantan and North Kalimantan provincial governments depend heavily on the the central government for funding. Check =179]this out. Almost the entire infrastructural and development spending for the two provinces in 2013 is funded by a central government agency. Fyi, the local hoodlums there, as well as corrupt officials, are mainly 'financed' by timber and palm oil companies - not tax dollars. So you see, I honestly don't see how implementing a tax-free regime in Borneo, whether in Kalimantan or Sabah or Sarawak or Brunei or Labuan, will make things better for the people there.

Re Guangdong, in Guangzhou, a short distance from the Twin Towers.
But China isn't really a great example for anything, either way.
Apart from North Korea, I can't think of many other places where foreigners are more boxed in. Further, observations about China often miss (or entirely discount) the powerful patriachal effect enjoyed by government and military officials over the general population. It is nigh impossible to understand China without first understanding the deeply embedded quasi-religious form of patriarchy and social hierarchy there.