Quote from: btcusury on October 31, 2014, 03:42:23 PM

Quote from: jbreher on October 15, 2014, 02:46:35 PM

Quote from: btcusury on October 15, 2014, 02:20:02 PM

But we elected them to represent us! They are us!

Disagree. In elections, all we can choose is the particular set of power-mad psychopaths that will lord over us. There is never an electoral option to abolish the entire system.

You write this, but then you write this...

Quote from: jbreher on October 15, 2014, 05:51:19 PM

By employing the use of Federal Reserve Notes -- in whatever limited manner -- are you necessarily making the statement that you fully approve of the FED, central banking, and all that it entails? I say no - you can be completely against these things, and still use the 'dollar' for some things. What other choice is there? Is 'opting out' completely a viable option? Not that I can see.

By the same token, by voting, you are not necessarily advocating the legitimacy of the entire concept of 'government'. One need not _believe_ in The Most Dangerous Superstition in order to attempt to ease the concordant suffering, even if a near-negligible amount.

At this point in time, there is essentially an equivalent-to-zero chance that 'government' of the form currently practiced in the USA will be cast off. Some day, perhaps. But the near future? Absolutely not.

In the meantime, voting is the _only_ mechanism we have to exert any influence whatsoever over the system.

Slavery is not going to end any time soon, said the chained African slave, so in the meantime, voting for Mr Jones or Mr Jacobstein is the _only_ mechanism we have to exert any influence whatsoever over the system.

I have already conceded that voting is not actually the only mechanism. But I fail to detect your point. What are you getting at?

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The problem is not the "power-mad psychopaths that will lord over us". The problem is you paying attention to them and believing that they have any power over you whatsoever.

But they do have power over us. Legitimate or not (I'm going with not). Stop following their edicts, and they put you in a cage- end of story. Of course I think you would likely agree that this is the case. I again fail to see your point.

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You are completely missing the point of how change works.

Says you. I say you are wrong about this. You seem to have read right over the point where I indicated that voting is most certainly not the only thing -- nay, not even the most significant thing -- I am doing in order to bring about change. It is an additional thing I am doing on the margin.

In what way does my voting prevent any other mechanism for bringing about change? In no way. Period.

Go ahead and think yourself superior for avoiding the ballot. Maybe you even think that refraining from voting is somehow, in and of itself, bringing about the change you want to see. If so, I think you're being delusional.

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You don't influence or reform or fix or patch or improve the existing system (i.e. people's belief systems). You build something new that replaces the old as it dies by its own weight. See the Soviet Union. Would you remain on the Titanic rearranging furniture to one side of the deck hoping that it won't sink? Or would you jump on the decentralized boats? Wink

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Though I guess I'm most interested in defending my position, rather than to change your mind or anything. After all, I'd hate to be continue to be viewed as a hypocrite.

I guess then I just wasted 10 minutes.

You spend your time however you want. Can't put that responsibility on me.