Quote from: BanditryAndLoot on November 05, 2014, 10:25:35 PM

Quote from: LongAndShort on November 05, 2014, 10:02:33 PM

This is not just about spending money on it, you are justifying, stupidly, a massive premine on the basis "if you don't like it don't buy it" which is stupid. This has so much more to do with allowing this poxy crap to exist in the way you twits continue to condone it!

Got it, we're all playing with magic internet money in 2014 with quantum computing and total surveillance right around the corner anyways, with absolutely no way to fully subvert it, and I'm the idiot. Yes, foolish me for passing the time until the inevitable happens.

Quote from: LongAndShort on November 05, 2014, 10:02:33 PM

Premine=problems. It already is a problem, ignoring it is reckless! devs get paid by vc when they have proper working tech they don't get money before that nor should they unless someone choses to fund them. Its just wrong and comes with massive issues like such!

You're putting words in my mouth. I've not ignored it one single bit. Nobody should. Actually, I think the statement 'the worst that can happen economically is the price is low for months' addresses that specifically, if they intend to sell it in the next few months. Your opinion that premines are wrong is your opinion. Personally, I'm not against it. I'm really not. I'd rather see developers get paid than investors any and every day of the week, even if that means it's a single satoshi coin long forgotten, because at least then assholes don't see the need to 'revive' it until much longer after it's become not relevant. If they want a kill switch for a year or two, fine by me, especially if they crank out a working product. If people want to wait till it's open source to fork it for a 'fair' version, fine by me. Why? Because these are economic terms, and have shit all to do with the technical ones.

Quote from: LongAndShort on November 05, 2014, 10:02:33 PM

We are having a few issues with this it was dumped on us yesterday and we are trying to debunk it which we cant because there are no anonymous transactions taking place on the network yet so hold your horses, be careful and look at the things people are saying in a different light instead of placing it in fud every fucking time like a moron!

If I thought you were fudding, I've got a grey list for that. You're not on it, and neither is anyone else besides three people, and a whole lot of shitcoin developers. The people, I tell them, the developers, I do not.
Either way, if the dev wants to dump the premine, I've already said how I feel about that above.

Quote from: LongAndShort on November 05, 2014, 10:02:33 PM

Trusting someone to hold so much of a premine in the beginning is TRUST...something we should be moving away from, its highly unnecessary and bitcoin and litecoin prove that! And its something that this tech represents at its very core!

Wrong. Trust begins when the developer shows up for weeks explaining themselves over and over again, it's not some 'instantaneous' moment when I download the binary, or click 'buy' on the market. It takes months to build trust, and I agree with you that the premine is part of that, but to say that trust is absent in all of these currencies because of the presence or lack of a premine is a total fallacy. I feel we have different opinions on that.

Quote from: LongAndShort on November 05, 2014, 10:02:33 PM

As of right now this system does not work. It is not 100% zero knowledge without exploits until proven. There is no zerocoins spent on the blockchain yet and taco and many of us are bringing up issues we know of with their implied implementation yet we are not getting many responses just yet but rest assured we will get to the bottom of this. So instead of attacking people who are out to figure it out properly please just kick back and enjoy the answers we are given!!

They're replying a decent amount. It's a lot of information that can't be shot off in a sentence or two. To say it doesn't work after 5 hours of playing with it, especially when people like Taco are playing around with the software is crazy. I'm not saying there aren't issues, you're putting words in my mouth again .. but hey I get it, not many people are replying to you yet. Just, ease off a little bit maybe? I just got my first coins confirmed and I'm trying to play with the zerocoin minting as well. I'm not trying to attack anyone here, please quote to me what you thought was an attack? I just want to play with some software here, I turned my desktops into disposable ones just to do this Cheesy

Please accept my deepest apologies you copped the brunt of something you really shouldn't have. I can see from a mile away you're interested in the tech. I was distracted at the time of reading you post and again i apologise.

I'm very protective of this tech and this space, i cop a lot of heat for it (expected) and i cracked, finally, sorry. All i see with premine is a ways to bring a lot of unnecessary issues in the future when people are heavily invested and have much more to lose in both their time and money. If they don't do what people like with it. Which sounds stupid, i know but it does happen in every premined coin i've seen to date!

Most of us learn't our lessons long ago but people arn't accepting of the culture legacy. They class it all as fud until they get hurt and move on or see the light and learn their own lesson. That is not a justification to say they need to get burnt to learn so let them either i believe. its not an excuse to condone it or support it. pro vs con its unnecessary. I believe this is deeper and all the signs of this project stink imo but im yet to be, yet willing to be proven wrong.

I'm really interested in the tech and hope they have nailed it but i'm extremely dubious and i don't agree that they warrant holding such a large premine right from the beginning, especially when they just released the info yesterday. I don't care who they flipping are, its not the right thing to do and has nothing to do with the trust you were referring my post to. This trust is 100% from the start and we don't have any source code. Thats the difference here, trusted devs earn it but if they have closed source and a premine its extremely risky and highly unnecessary.. Fact is vert devs implemented something that wreaks of a gimmik i'm not convinced they are competent to implement it well enough and to have solved the ton of issues that reside with it. I'm yet to be proven wrong and willing of course but i'm not confident with the way they have been communicating with us assuming its been such an easy implementation: alarms me and id like to dig deeper with them for better understanding of what they have actually done to achieve this and what hurdles they encountered and how they solved them. If its good you get funded its that simple but what these guys did was pay themselves first and earn trust later it doesn't and wont and shouldn't work like that. It severely limits the project from the minute it launches.

Please let me know when you mint take note of the process, resource usage and the times please i have a feeling its going to take hours to mint and minutes to verify. Setting up a private testnet shortly.

I do believe this is very alpha and i find it irresponsible of the devs not to issue a disclosure on that. There are so many issues with zerocoin it is extremely hard to believe they nailed it like this. Hopefully in time we can understand it better and accept the way they have come about all of this but be warned this is a scary project to invest in right now. I think the premine should/could be used as collateral to lend enough money for them to get an audit. That or one of their VC/supporters fund it!

I encourage people to open the tesnet node and start pressure testing the zerocoin minting and spending before attempting many on the mainnet with with your hard mined/bought coins