Quote from: hazek on June 08, 2012, 11:55:50 AM

Quote from: MtGox_Dylan on June 08, 2012, 06:28:33 AM

Why do AML/KYC?

Mt.Gox handles both Bitcoin and fiat currency (Dollars, Euros, etc.) As a result, we are bound by the laws of Japan and America, along with various international regulations which cover the fiat side of our business. Very similar to how a bank in most countries must be regulated to ensure they are not facilitating money laundering, terrorist financing or the like, we are obliged to follow the same rules.

Oh please enough with the state propaganda bullshit.

Why don't you tell it like it really is. You are not obliged, you are forced under threat of violence to gather information about your customers so that governments around the world can control what your customer's money is being used for. "Money laundering, terrorist financing or the like" are victimless crimes the state invented as a way to gain even more control over the people they assert their rule over.

You can't imagine the angry thoughts that go through my mind when I read bs propaganda like this, I'm pretty sure if they already tried to attack people for thought crime I'd get the capital punishment. Angry

First and foremost, don't let the bullies in this thread silence you (and shame on them). Your opinion is just as important as mtgox trying to work within the current system.

I think we have to view the situation for what it ismtgox is trying to operate out in the open and within the confines of the existing lawwhether that law is legitimate or not. At BitPay, we do the same. Above a certain threshold and we require identifying information before we'll process transactions. We even turn away many merchants trying to sell things of questionable legality (they really shouldn't even be considering use of a third party processor like us in the first place). Some of these merchants are already accepting payment from paypal or visa/mc. As a libertarian, I don't agree with the prohibition and criminalization of drugs, yet we have to turn away those businesses. As a Bitcoin business, you really have to make a decision, either you operate in the open and comply with the existing laws, or you completely mask yourself (as Silk Road has done). There's really no middle ground. Any business trying to operate in a middle ground is going to fail.

The reality is that money is information and, like any other form of information, it can be sent anywhere in the world in the blink of an eye and in complete privacy. Many of the laws governing money simply ignore this basic reality and that's a dangerous situation that we must work to change. People have to come to terms with the idea that financial transactions need to be allowed to be private if we value freedom at all.

Law enforcement has become accustomed to using the financial system to catch criminals, but this is only a relatively recent phenomenon. It wasn't that long ago that the world didn't have computers or the Internet and the world still turned and law enforcement still managed to do their job. We need to acknowledge that innovations around money are likely to take this tool away (Bitcoin or no Bitcoin) from law enforcement. While I don't agree with all laws, I do agree with the concept of laws. While I may not believe we need a government that consumes (and largely wastes) 25% or more of our economy, I do believe that even in a completely anarchistic society, we need a legal structure and we need law enforcement.

So, back to mtgox and Bitcoin businesses operating in the open in generalvoices like yours are very important and highly valued. You express an opinion that even people running businesses that try to remain in compliance with laws largely agree with. These businesses need your voice and voices like yours in order to have a dialog with regulators that moves things in the right direction. The thing I fear most is that Bitcoin and software like bitcoin will be banned. I don't fear the collapse of Bitcoin, Bitcoin was designed to be unstoppable. I fear it because I fear what such a course of action means for the fabric of society. I fear what would happen when governments collapse. I know some people believe that's inevitable and that we simply have to brace ourselves and manage the best we can. I don't think it necessarily has to go that way, but we do need people that can listen and can understand.

It's not even so much about ideology as it is about acknowledging reality. Unfortunately for mtgox, BitPay and others, we may find that the market ultimately just routes around us. The regulators might like the fact that mtgox is collecting all this information, but that's not going to do regulators any good when their volume is 0.