Quote from: Quickseller on November 16, 2014, 05:59:05 AM

Quote from: TECSHARE on November 15, 2014, 10:44:25 PM

Quote from: Quickseller on November 15, 2014, 10:16:27 PM

Quote from: TECSHARE on November 15, 2014, 10:08:27 PM

Butterzone, I think where we agree is that not all critical posts in the marketplace or other areas where people are engaged in professional activities here are accurate or warranted. People who engage in such activity should not be free to do so without repercussion. Being critical of a user for engaging in actual fraudulent or dishonest activity is one thing, and users are free to bring light to anyone engaged in these acts pretty much on the entire forum. For the rest of the dedicated users operating here professionally and obeying posting guidelines, allowing this kind of activity or furthermore punishing users for acting against it is a slap in the face. Letting some one control their own marketplace thread does not some how silence critics because they have the ENTIRE FORUM to be critical of users. Not letting some one take a crap all over your storefront is not equivalent to silencing free speech.

Unless you own the property that someone is making speaking on, then you do not have any right to "punish" them for what they say. You do not own the thread in which you are selling your goods, and therefore you do not have any right to punish anyone who says anything in your thread (provided they are not attempting to scam).

It is a valid question to ask why you are charging a certain price when others are charging a lower price. If you feel your price is appropriate then you should respond to then why they are appropriate and any potential customer can see both of your arguments in a transparent way.

Yeah that works great in fantasy land. In reality trolls don't give a crap about logical arguments, and regardless it doesn't stop the damage done. Also I love the misquoting of the actual words I used about the mods "punishing" me for the trust I left, and attributing it to me as if I claimed I want to "punish" others. Quite disingenuous.

You want a fair trading environment but also want to let people operate on this forum as if it were 4chan. I am not claiming the thread itself is my property, I am claiming it SHOULD be, at least within the confines of the marketplace section. Even if every single marketplace posting was self moderated it would not stop others from calling out fraud or abuse elsewhere in the forum. Additionally it costs you nothing to allow people to harass me, therefore you have no interest in protecting me to begin with, and neither do the mods.

However there is plenty of incentive for people to drift from thread to thread and pretend like they are righting wrongs so they can look like social justice warriors and also entertain themselves with trolling in the process. People can cause harm with their words and by invading and hijacking otherwise productive threads. These people thrive off of destroying the work of others and due so under a guise of pointing out a wrong to put their victims on the defensive from the beginning of their perpetration of this harassment. This will continue to be exploited by disingenuous people until the moderators and staff correct their failed attempts at moderating trust in any way. As long as you comply to it, they will keep harassing then demanding the staff correct it for them. Neutral trust isn't going to fix anything, because the problem isn't the trust system, it is your attempts at moderating it. Staff/moderators your strategy is a failing one. Unfortunately you decided to punish me and others instead of accepting that fact.

It does not matter if a troll is going to act logically or not. The troll can make their invalid argument then you can respond with logic to counter their argument. Unless they bring up an additional point there is no reason to respond further, if you do then you are only feeding the trolls. If the troll bumps their argument or continues to post trolling without you or anyone responding then you can report the post and it should be deleted and/or they will get banned. If you continue to respond to them then they are responding to you and their posts will likely not get deleted and will likely not get banned. It may not be easy to do this however if you ignore the troll they will eventually go away. Also if you leave a logical response to the troll then your potential customers will be able to see your response and can see that your trolls concerns are invalid (if this is actually the case).

There is no reason for your marketplace threads to be your property. You did not invest any money in the development of the forum nor did you invest anything to get the forum to be as popular.used as it is today. If you were to pay the forum for the right to list what you are selling in the marketplace then it would be a different story, but you do not and it is not. Although it is a good practice to check places like scam accusations prior to buying from someone, I do not think that most/many people do and as a result all that a potential buyer can see is what is on the selling thread. If someone's concerns are not there then a buyer will probably not see them.

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 15, 2014, 11:40:37 PM

Well, this topic was a massive waste of time and energy. I'm not on Default Trust (#19-20), nor am I/would I be attached to being on it (#4). Subjective systems are subjective. /unsubscribe

You are on default trust. You are trusted by both theymos and badbear. If you do not have any custom trust list then you can see who is on default trust by going to your trust settings. These are the people who are on default trust and who will impact anyone's trust in the eyes of anyone that has not customized their trust list; the positive numbers are the number of people who are on the root level of default trust have you on their trusted list:

Code:

HostFat (2)
mikegogulski (1)
Luke-Jr (2)
dooglus (1)
Raize (2)
Maged (4)
gmaxwell (2)
Carnth (2)
TECSHARE (-2)
Caesium (1)
dilatedPixel (1)
phantastisch (1)
OgNasty (3)
CanaryInTheMine (1)
ckolivas (2)
paraipan (1)
John (John K.) (5)
danieldaniel (1)
dree12 (3)
Tomatocage (3)
SaltySpitoon (4)
ineededausername (1)
DeaDTerra (1)
BadBear (5)
El Cabron (-2)
Blazr (3)
LouReed (1)
xkrikl (1)
BCB (3)
PsychoticBoy (2)
btharper (1)
burnside (1)
Akka (1)
TheButterZone (2)
LoweryCBS (2)
stenkross (1)
Benson Samuel (2)
johnniewalker (1)
escrow.ms (3)
shiftybugger (1)
ThickAsThieves (2)
fluidjax (1)
binaryFate (1)
TomUnderSea (-1)
dwdoc (2)
Tywill (1)
DefaultTrust (7)
BayAreaCoins (1)
mitzie (1)
Jaaawsh (-1)
theymos (4)
rb1205 (1)
paci (1)
Stemby (1)
ziomik (1)
ercolinux (1)
diego1000 (1)
GIANNAT (1)
bertani (1)
Cripto (1)
ghibly79 (1)
sirius (1)
Gavin Andresen (3)
casascius (3)
Stunna (3)
OldScammerTag (1)
tysat (3)
piuk (1)
sveetsnelda (2)
nonnakip (1)
Miner-TE (1)
Noitev (1)
eleuthria (1)
luv2drnkbr (1)
Digigami (1)
E (1)
zapeta (1)
bitpop (1)
Mabsark (1)
redcomet (1)
ipxtreme (1)
Philj (1)
os2sam (1)
yxt (1)
knybe (1)
Trance104 (1)
conv3rsion (1)
tlr (1)
bitcoin-rigs.com (1)
Vod (3)
dtmcnamara (1)
notme (1)
FCTaiChi (1)
Mushroomized (2)
mainichi (1)
greeners (1)
dribbits (1)
echris1 (1)
bitcoiner49er (1)
freshzive (1)
arklan (1)
glendall (1)
Pistachio (1)
tarrant_01 (1)
tbcoin (1)
ElideN (1)
friedcat (1)
Bees Brothers (2)
Christoban (1)
Stale (1)
af_newbie (1)
eroxors (1)
camolist (1)
MrTeal (1)
cncguru (1)
Mendacium (1)
Dabs (2)
mem (1)
Namworld (1)
lky_svn (1)
420 (1)
mr2dave (1)
DobZombie (1)
gektek (1)
johnny5 (1)
dyingdreams (1)
Zillions (1)
phrog (1)
Domrada (1)
Mapuo (1)
philipma1957 (1)
jborkl (1)
RicRock (1)
jmutch (1)
MonocleMan (1)
b!z (1)
CoinHoarder (1)
absinth (1)
mitty (1)
(^_^) (1)
der_troll (1)
soy (1)
super3 (1)
iluvpcs (1)
batt01 (1)
xstr8guy (1)
MJGrae (1)
mobile (1)
nubbins (1)
hephaist0s (1)
BitcoinValet (1)
Timzim103 (1)
Rounder (1)
Nemo1024 (1)
TheXev (1)
ibminer (1)
Mooshire (1)
Benny1985 (1)
mrbrt (1)
hanti (1)
ssinc (1)
Kaega (1)
finlof (1)
True___Blue (1)
elchorizo (1)
fewerlaws (1)
bitterdog (1)
Swimmer63 (1)
locksmith9 (1)
Krellan (1)
Spendulus (1)
MikeMike (1)
statdude (1)
bluespaceant (1)
Hiroaki (1)
keeron (1)
Bigdaddyaz (1)
Polyatomic (1)
palmface (1)
flowdab (1)
SpaceCadet (1)
photon (1)
xzempt (1)
jdany (1)
mackstuart (1)
bmoconno (1)
jdot007 (1)
mrtg (1)
maxpower (1)
xjack (1)
CommanderVenus (1)
daddyfatsax (1)
Plesk (1)
helipotte (1)
aurel57 (1)
gambitv (1)
boyohi (1)
LaserHorse (1)
joeventura (1)
slashopt (1)
drofdelm (1)
canth (1)
zackclark70 (1)
cdogster (1)
DBOD (1)
addzz (1)
DustMite (1)
pixl8tr (1)
namoom (1)
blblr (1)
Taugeran (1)
arc45 (1)
smscotten (1)
Cilantro (1)
chadtn (1)
kinger1331 (1)
guytechie (1)
rumlazy (1)
fractalbc (1)
fforforest (1)
KyrosKrane (1)
ZBC3 (1)
rj11248 (1)
bitdigger2013 (1)
Damnsammit (1)
jaslo (1)
BorisAlt (1)
ASICSAUCE (1)
sidehack (1)
steelcave (1)
Rotorgeek (1)
buyer99 (1)
daddyhutch (1)
digeros (1)
west17m (1)
Trillium (1)
ziggysisland (1)
devthedev (1)
ryhan (1)
zac2013 (1)
atomriot (1)
metal_jacke1 (1)
Apheration (1)
spacebob (1)
2byZi (1)
terrapinflyer (1)
BenTheRighteous (1)
gsr18 (1)
Paddy (1)
Jennifer Smith (1)
J_Dubbs (1)
00Smurf (1)
ldh37 (1)
thomslik (1)
argakiig (1)
ManeBjorn (1)
Ski72 (1)
suchmoon (1)
Thai (1)
Vladimir (1)
grue (1)
Kluge (2)
piotr_n (1)
Mousepotato (1)
jwzguy (1)
Graet (1)
the joint (1)
Michail1 (1)
wallet.dat (1)
KWH (2)
Blazedout419 (1)
Powell (1)
shdvb (-1)
Ryland R. Taylor-Almanza (1)
nanotube (1)
zvs (1)
malevolent (1)
Korbman (1)
Deprived (1)
DiamondCardz (1)
DannyHamilton (2)
Boelens (1)
rarkenin (1)
idee2013 (1)
favdesu (1)
allinvain (1)
datafish (1)
smooth (1)
SebastianJu (1)
Rassah (1)
Otoh (1)
jackjack (1)
Eisenhower34 (1)
btc_jumpnrl (1)
etotheipi (1)
DeathAndTaxes (1)
CIYAM (1)
buysellbitcoin (1)
subvolatil (1)
cooldgamer (1)
shawshankinmate37927 (1)
webr3 (1)
vitalemontea (1)
Chainsaw (1)
BladeRunner (1)
deadley (1)
Dragooon (1)
Evilish (1)
gudmunsn (1)
spartan82 (1)
Badman0316 (1)
goose20 (1)
americandesi (1)
Equate (1)
bobtaj (1)
Sovereign_Curtis (1)
instacash (1)
Clayce (1)
KCmining (1)
@ThisWeeksCoin (1)

Here are the people who are on the "root" default trust list and can effectively add/remove people from default trust:

Code:

sirius
theymos
HostFat
dooglus
Maged
OgNasty
CanaryInTheMine
Tomatocage
SaltySpitoon
BadBear
escrow.ms
OldScammerTag

It so happens that many people on this list happen to be moderators and may wear multiple hats when posting regarding trust in this section. They may be posting as a moderator or they may be posting as someone who is on the root level of default trust.

Quote from: TECSHARE on November 15, 2014, 11:23:34 PM

Quote from: TheButterZone on November 15, 2014, 11:17:57 PM

Can anyone screenshot or otherwise link me to the Default Trust list? The closest I could find was under my user version of https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;full - scrolled to the bottom (TLOT is one of the 3 on my trust list) and saw:

TheLordOfTime
serp
DefaultTrust
sirius
theymos
HostFat
dooglus
Maged
OgNasty
CanaryInTheMine
Tomatocage
SaltySpitoon
BadBear
escrow.ms
OldScammerTag

Aren't all the names in bold the only ones on Default Trust?

I believe that is correct. Because the forum is set to default 2 levels of trust, anyone who trusts you that is on that list also makes you part of the default trust tree.

This is not quite correct. The above people must go into their trust settings and add/remove you in order to add/remove you from default trust. The above people can leave positive feedback for you without adding you to default trust

Thanks for clearing that up. People on the default trust list or however way you get the power to have a -6/-1 feedback rating need to use it responsibly and from what I've seen it's being used for the wrong reasons so the people who have it either need to start using it right or it needs to be deleted all together. Using your forum power because you're mad at somebody doesn't show the maturity level you need to hold that kind of position on the forum no matter how much you've helped the site out because it's ultimately hurting the site.