Quote from: NewLiberty on November 16, 2014, 08:12:29 PM

Quote from: brg444 on November 16, 2014, 08:00:59 PM

Quote from: NewLiberty on November 16, 2014, 07:05:32 PM

Quote from: brg444 on November 16, 2014, 06:59:37 PM

Quote from: NewLiberty on November 16, 2014, 06:25:32 PM

Which code is open? You mean Bitcoin code, Not Blockstream's, right?

At this time there is no competition.
It is not likely that there will be any competition soon, if ever.
Adding SPV is really only for Blockstream.

Do you know the complexity of setting up a proof system for which these verifications are made? Look into it. It is a major effort taking some of the best minds many years and a LOT of computational power.

You are really arguing Blockstream will be the only one building sidechains on top of SPVproof !?

Is there another?

Quote from: brg444 on November 16, 2014, 06:59:37 PM

Blockstream has no code per say, they will write some for clients but SPVproof code is open source.

What's to stop Vitalik and the gang or Peter Todd and the crew from creating Blockstream2-3 when they realise that Blockstream business model is viable and is in fact the future of Bitcoin development.

You are underestimating the accomplishment of SNARKs. It took a very large array of expensive computers, a few years of dedicated time by some of the smartest minds in cryptography, some luck and a lot of dedication and persistence. A large grant from the EU. And a very deep, and very specialized mathematics background.

It is pretty a similar set of requirements for starting another Google. And I think Blockstream may well be the next Google. If I were Google, I'd have bought them already.

They don't have to reinvent SNARKS. Only understanding and ~~implemention~~ implementation is required now.
Surely you are not suggesting the Blockstream crew are the only ones able to do that.

So you concede that there are no others and it is not a lie?
Help me out so that I can be the 2nd then, and make that a lie as you would like to have it.
Where is the open-sourced SNARKs repository? I've not had a chance to look for it yet.

Quote from: brg444 on November 16, 2014, 08:00:59 PM

Once the SPVproof maths have been properly reviewed and vetted by the community (much like Bitcoin or any other propositions are) then its open source code nature will make it available for anyone to tinker with and come away with their own applications and implementations.

The comparison to Google is somewhat pulled out of nowhere. Sure I imagine their success will be comparable but it is not because of them having built a service that benefits from network effect. They are consultants & developers. They don't have any proprietary product or service to offer except their expertise in the crypto field.

The comparison to Google is apt. They capitalized on new compression mathematics that they didn't develop, but came out of the human genome project. Blockstream is also hoping to capitalize on the network effect of Bitcoin, otherwise this would be developed on an altcoin and vetted more properly before plugging it into Bitcoin.

In the lab you can evaluate the code and technology, but not the economics. At best you can model that, and even the best models fail constantly.
Remember 2008? Greenspan's models failed. They all fail ultimately. The map is not the terrain.

Did you bring SNARKs into the discussion to fit your narrative?

I will repeat : They are consultants & developers. They don't have any proprietary product or service to offer except their expertise in the crypto field. Sure they are piggybacking off Bitcoin's network effect as in it guarantees the long term viability of their business model but they have no network effect proprietary to their service and working for THEM.

Are you so shortsighted that you don't accept the eventuality that IBM, Microsoft, Google, Redhat will find interest in developing their own sidechains or the ones they could be mandated to create by clients.