Quote from: cypherdoc on November 22, 2014, 10:15:35 PM

Quote from: brg444 on November 22, 2014, 10:08:45 PM

Quote from: cypherdoc on November 22, 2014, 09:51:08 PM

but it requires changing source by inserting potential malware into the system called spvp. the sanctity of the inextricable link btwn the BTC currency unit and its BC should be maintained at all costs for security reasons as this is what leads to its sound money function. the assumptions behind spvp and MM are so theoretical at this pt, i fail to see how you can be so certain in your claims.

miners have invested large sums of fiat to generate BTC from block rewards and tx fees and suddenly you want to insert an offramp for those same BTC units that had a known and measurable amount of POW invested to generate and secure them? these offramps will definitely change the delicate mining equilibrium that currently exists today.

Malware

lol stop spewing nonsense please. SPVP, at the risk of repeating myself, is an alternative mechanism for proof verification between a sidechain and the mainchain. The only thing SPVP enables is a more decentralized sidechains models that does not have to rely on centralized entities for its security but derives its own security from the miners' work.

The "sanctity of the inextricable link btwn the BTC currency unit and its BC" is already challenged at present state by off-chain schemes. The issue is not with seperating the unit from the chain but the value from the ledger. Off-chains schemes are the most important risk to the integrity of the ledger and they are what you should be concerned about.

Sidechain offers a potentially safer way to assign value from the ledger outside of the main blockchain.

Quote

Step back for a moment from your delusion for a moment and realize that SPVP is not unique in its ability to create this separation and that native mechanisms that exist already will leverage this functionality whether or not SPVP is implemented.

These federated models will gain considerable tractions once they are properly implemented and so I suggest you get with the program and reconsider your stance because your opposition to that idea is futile.

The off ramp introduced by SPVP is the only one that can secure miners' incentives (transaction fees) in the future. Any other of the many different models of off-ramp that exist today are a danger to "hijack" these transactions fees.

there are so many dangerous assertions in here that have no proof to back them up. as the one who's advocating doing nothing, the burden of proof is upon you.

we keep going round and round.

Let me see.

Quote

SPVP, at the risk of repeating myself, is an alternative mechanism for proof verification between a sidechain and the mainchain. The only thing SPVP enables is a more decentralized sidechains models that does not have to rely on centralized entities for its security but derives its own security from the miners' work.

Proof is in the pudding. Yes it implies a change to the miners incentives model but one can certainly argue it is for the better. SPVP is neutral, the subsequent sidechains resulting from its implementation can be used in every possible ways but none that is not already possible through federated models or off-chain services.

So no, it is unlikely that SPVP has a unique ability to spawn some kind of monster-malware sidechain that causes any significant danger to Bitcoin.

Quote

The "sanctity of the inextricable link btwn the BTC currency unit and its BC" is already challenged at present state by off-chain schemes. The issue is not with seperating the unit from the chain but the value from the ledger. Off-chains schemes are the most important risk to the integrity of the ledger and they are what you should be concerned about.

I think that's pretty self-explanatory. Your attempt at painting the picture in a way that supposedly makes the sidechain "off-ramp" worse than more conventional schemes because the unit is somehow "detached" from the mainchain (even though that is technically not true) is misguiding. The concern is with the value that is stored and whether or not it is stored securely and in a way that reconciles with the main ledger.

Quote

Sidechain offers a potentially safer way to assign value from the ledger outside of the main blockchain.

SPVP Sidechains present an opportunity to respect the Sound Money property of Bitcoin on the protocol level without any additional trust required from outside of the Bitcoin network.

Quote

The off ramp introduced by SPVP is the only one that can secure miners' incentives (transaction fees) in the future. Any other of the many different models of off-ramp that exist today are a danger to "hijack" these transactions fees.

Maybe another technology will appear that could rival SPVP (SNARKS?) but I should say it is in fact merged-mining that enables the protection of miners' economic incentives