Quote from: rocks on December 03, 2014, 06:40:24 PM

Quote from: brg444 on December 03, 2014, 06:11:53 PM

Quote from: rocks on December 03, 2014, 06:00:36 PM

Quote from: Adrian-x on December 03, 2014, 12:39:12 AM

I don't understand the fear of alts. I'm into Bitcoin because it's better money, in our history it's the best yet.
Competition is what will make it better. Alts can out innovate Bitcoin on every metric except one, the Network Effect, and this is what makes it useful as a SoV.

I think this significantly underestimates the threat of alt coins and why Bitcoin is not a given (I'm saying this as someone who believes/hopes in the project)

For example what if the US government created a USDollarCoin that:
1) has all of the benefits of programmable money, you can have your own wallet and spend it through computing devices
2) has the _perceived_ benefits of centralized control including the ability to "recover" lost coins and "reverse fraudulent" transactions (possibility a majority of people prefer this based on Bitcoin's detractors' views). This could be accomplished with forced use of multisig where the FED has co-control.
3) has significantly easier tax implications to deal with (meaning no tax implications) compared to bitcoin where EVERY transaction is a taxable event
4) launches with mass adoption through automatic bank account conversion
5) was legislated as the only legal currency

Maybe that doesn't scare you, but it scares me.

The first wave of alts were simple clones, it was almost a given that network effects would hold them back here. However the next wave of alts are going to
a) come with real innovations and then
b) come with government sanctioned force

Network effects & Bitcoin's programmable nature will probably keep a) at bay, however network effect might actually work against Bitcoin if b) ever came to pass.

I'm not saying this will happend, and it may seem far fetched today, but it is in the realm of possibilities. The US government lives off of the inflation tax and if Bitcoin ever becomes a real threat, the state will definitely try more and more attempts to maintain control of the money supply. It's possible the proposal above would be a last ditch attempt to save itself.

As I have said previously, the beauty of cryptocurrency is that it democratizes the creation of money. Competition is now possible and Bitcoin has obvious competitive advantages solely because of its monetary policy.

This is exactly right, Bitcoin enabled real competition with state fiat money and has provided us a fighting chance.

My main point was it will be a fight and Bitcoin's success is anything but a given.

Quote from: brg444 on December 03, 2014, 06:11:53 PM

The USDcoin might have the benefits of digital money but carries with it the devaluation problems and the reliance on a failed, soon to be bankrupt state.

Of course we both know that to the general population this is not a real concern as they do not realize that money is stolen from their pocket through inflation but now that a deflationary alternative is available it won't take long until they realize they're on the wrong side of the fence.

And those views will be part of the fight, a fight proponents of the gold standard lost BTW. The majority today are against a gold standard, I can't count the number of times I've been told that the gold standard caused the great depression, which is blatantly false but has been taught in the common core for generations. I think it will be an uphill battle to convince minds they should prefer "Bitcoin as a better gold standard" over a slow inflation fiat money with _perceived_ security.

The views held in this thread are contrary to many many people, even if we know we are "right".

Agreed.

One thing we have going for us though is greed. If there is money to be made holding your wealth in Bitcoin then people will gravitate toward that option.

I have this "vision" of a Bitcoin "bank" that offers risk-free accounts denominated in USD with preferable interest rates that regular fiat banks can not compete with. If this "product" can be offered to mainstream people then Bitcoin will gain ground very, very quickly.