Quote from: luv2drnkbr on December 04, 2014, 07:57:27 PM

Quote from: UnunoctiumTesticles on December 04, 2014, 03:33:52 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on December 04, 2014, 02:58:36 PM

Also as the market cap grows,
there will naturally be more and more liquidity.

Non-sequitur to argue that something scales because it scales.

Except that's not what he did. If the dollar price grows, it takes more dollars to proportionally move the market. That's a fact of mathematics, not a logical error.

Sorry but your math is incorrect. The price can be infinitely high and if the float is infinitely small, the amount of money to move the market higher is infinitely small.

The amount of money it takes to move the market is related to the float x market price, not price alone. Learn how markets really work.

What you forget is as I had already explained upthread the market cap is not the same as the amount of money invested:

Quote from: UnunoctiumTesticles on December 04, 2014, 12:56:05 PM

Just $10 billion (actually much less because a market cap is greater than the actual cash invested in the asset during an all time high price, since not everyone paid the highest price)

The market cap is based on the last clearing price.

Also it is a not a scaling equation because it doesn't consider externalities. If tomorrow all the world's wealth moved into Bitcoin under the assumption that the price must rise proportionally to the relative wealth invested, this would mean that the majority of the world's population would become destitute given the power law distribution of money. This is simple math.

You simply can't have the Bitcoin asset go to $10 million (under the false conditions of that false assumption stated above) without killing several billion people.

That is why you must have derivatives if you realistically want to scale in the world's wealth.

Quote from: luv2drnkbr on December 04, 2014, 07:57:27 PM

...[blahblahblah, nonsensical blabber deleted]...

Derivatives are players outside the market making outside bets with other outside actors about the market. That has nothing to do with Bitcoin or its liquidity,

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Quote from: luv2drnkbr on December 04, 2014, 07:57:27 PM

Derivatives en masse are one of the core problems with modern finance and banking. They *must* necessarily cause collapse. Because they don't actually bring value to the system.

You believe all the propaganda you've been fed without actually having any knowledge about how things work.

Derivatives don't cause collapse, it is corrupt banks selling derivatives rated AAA that actually contains sub-prime crap in them. It is corruption that causes collapse. It is too much leverage that causes collapse principally. It is derivatives with leverage where all the risk is held by a too-big-to-fail single entity that causes collapse.

I was advocating derivatives with 100% margin and decentralized presumably owned by a plethora of participants.

Derivatives are absolutely essential and have been used since money was invented.