Quote from: NotLambchop on December 08, 2014, 08:37:36 PM

Quote from: hacknoid on December 08, 2014, 08:06:30 PM

Quote from: NotLambchop on December 08, 2014, 07:29:58 PM

As a consumer, I do not have to wait more than a few seconds to transact via CC. The rest of your reply has nothing to do with speed--the point being addressed--and thus irrelevant.

Compare apples to apples. Transactions appear (unconfirmed) almost instantly. Every time I have made a purchase using bitcoin it goes through virtually instantly - and I can happily go on my way. Confirmations, OTOH, could take up to an hour on average. So instant=instant (consumer), 1 hr=/=2-30 days (merchant).

You must have been using a payment processor like OKCoin or Coinbase, that's why. The "CC have hidden fees & 1 hr=/=2-30 days (merchant)" argument applies in this case.

Again, apples to apples. Yes, the merchants I have purchased from have used a processor (BitPay in fact, is what I remember). Which is why, as I said, the transaction for me, the consumer, was instantaneous. It was an online transaction, so the moment it went through I was free to go on with my day. Which is why I used it to illustrate it was just as fast for the customer as a CC online. Oh, and the 'verified by visa' crap my wife had to deal with took significantly longer, since we had to enrol in the program at that moment. And in future times it is yet one more password to have to remember.

I have not had the pleasure of using bitcoin directly with a merchant to their wallet (by when the processors only charge them a 1% (or no) fee, why would they bother? The can still get bitcoin into their wallet at the end of the day...). But regardless, the transaction will show up immediately in the p2p network.

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Yes, there is minimal cost to consumer for BTC, vs no noticeable cost for a CC. However, there are MANY small businesses that do not (want) to take credit cards due to high fees.

Since you went all-caps on the word "MANY," I feel I should address this first: Did you know that there are MANY companies, both large and small, that do not accept BTC?
Well, now you know.

Yes I am well aware. The number that do is increasing every day. This is just one example of it following the same trend that websites did. For the longest time, back in the 90s and early 2000s many companies had no websites, and personally I found it a pain then when I couldn't go online to find out more information. Similar now to how I wish the small companies (and many big ones) would accept bitcoin at the checkout counter, so I could use it more. My point is that many want to, and either don't know about it, don't understand it, or don't have access to the knowledge currently required to accept it. But, that will change. And this will affect the convenience factor. For the merchant, it will be a bonus. And if they have their coin processed through a processor for a minimal fee, then they can remove some of those steps. Again, this will be very convenient for me, much more so than cash.

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They will either encourage you to pay with cash, or simply not accept it for small transaction amounts. So, you are left with cash as the only alternative. Great, if you have it. But you know what? I can always access my bitcoin wallet on my smartphone. And I don't wind up with a heavy pile of coins for change.

If you're doing cash transactions and get a heavy pile of change, I can only assume you're not shopping online. There are no brick & mortar retailers anywhere near where I live, which sort'a wipes out the convenience of using my smartphone Sad

And there are none near me right now, either. Hopefully that will change. I personally can't wait for the day. Electronic cash is certainly easier than physical cash, and using bitcoin would be cheaper than using Interac debit, which would cost me about $0.30 for small purchases (again, if retailers would do it at all). Many need at least a $5 minimum transaction in order to accept Interac.

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Oh, and that 10% "inflation" that you are referring to, is constantly getting smaller. Funny how the purchasing power of BTC has gone up over time (with few exceptions), while the value of a dollar in my pocket has gone down... and down... and down.

That's what the dollar is meant to do. Learn basic economics. To compensate for inflation, salaries also go up even faster.

I understand that. I don't believe inflation is required, however, since not all salaries go up to match inflation. In fact, mine has not kept up with inflation for at least the past 6 years.

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Again, apples to apples. For bitcoin itself, there were no thefts, hacks or scams. Some businesses and users in the bitcoin world ripped off people - exactly the same way some businesses using dollars or CCs ripped off users. CC numbers are ROUTINELY stolen, and money - well, governments are still trying to come up with a way to make it counterfeit-proof. So the medium is MUCH safer...

Yes, CC #s get stolen, and even when it's clearly your fault, the credit card company reimburses you for your loss. That's what "security" means.
Arguing that "the technology itself is secure" is meaningless--we're talking about IRL scenarios, not an idealized situation where the user does everything right, is vigilant and well-versed in security procedures, and never makes a mistake.
CC protect you regardless of the human factor involved.

Bitcoin has lost a significant percentage of total coins mined to theft & hacks. The users also have no recourse if they get ripped off, unless they run to the nanny state they bitch about so often & said nanny state chooses to help the hapless ungrateful goofs.

The security of the technology IS important - if it were possible for someone to easily steal or counterfeit bitcoins that would be a big deal - but they can't. And many experts have tried. So it's important to realize that the weak point is not the technology, but the human factor. And no more so than with other forms of digital payment.

So if you are careful with your bitcoins and treat them as securely as you would a handful of cash, then you shouldn't have a problem. You won't have to worry about someone stealing the credit card database from a large retailer and then you having to replace your card. Sure the CC company will cover the fraudulent transactions, but its still a pain in the butt. Especially if you happen to be travelling and charging stuff on your CC when it gets denied. Ever have that happen? That's certainly not convenient.

There is no recourse if someone steals your coins, just as there is no recourse if someone steals your cash. Which is why I say compare apples to apples. Theft of electronic cash is the same as theft of physical cash - if you can catch the thieves they can be charged, but whether you get any cash back in your pocket at the end of the day is questionable at best. If a company rips you off then again the company could be sued.