Quote from: interlagos on December 25, 2014, 02:02:48 AM

Quote from: BitcoinFreak12 on December 24, 2014, 09:41:24 PM

Quote from: interlagos on December 23, 2014, 01:59:04 PM

@BitcoinFreak12

I had a similar insight about the new societal structure a couple of years ago:
"consensus-based society with provable trust-free voting"
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=124477

In short global society is organized as a hierarchy of consensus groups starting with the minimal cell - family. Smaller consesnus groups are then free to join or leave larger ones. I'm still of the opinion that transparency in communication will help the whole system to self-organize in the best possible way. Collaboration requires transparency of communication.

Hey i`m open to any liberty based ideas, I myself am an anarcho-capitalist, but i`d accept even a libertarian world rather than the socialist-corporatist that i`m living in now.

So perhaps we can build the liberty world step by step, and then we can decide how far we will go, full anarcho-capitalist or we would retain a smaller state, but a very small one in a form of a libertarian fully open society.

The issue now remains to take the first step, and dont hesitate

One pointing out though, i dont consider the family as the basic unit, i consider the individual the basis. Because the family can be abusive, or just not exist, orphans, or just simply people who like individuality like I do.

So for example i am not married and i would never marry, because i consider the marriage a socialist-marxist thing, ,a collective household bullsh*t,because you have to share the income and the property, the responsability (household debt),and else, and if you divorce you are forced to give up half, which is a very communist principle.

I`d much happily live with a woman as a couple or girlfriend relation, than to bind myself legally into a communist stupidity. Now you might think its crazy, but its just my view of marriage, i dont like socialist/communist stuff

I agree with what you said. My example of family was in terms of a minimal group that required consensus and collaboration, but not in a legal sense of the word. Being an individual is perfectly fine too.

Now regarding first steps and taking action. The system I described would work best if done bottom-up, but reality is such that we already have power clusters operating in the shadow that would likely prevent any competition in this space. So the most appropriate action in our situation is to start opening them up, step by step, little by little. The only way to let black hole evaporate, is to stop feeding it, which means moving away from obscure financial system currently in place to an open and transparent one like Bitcoin.

Anonymity will always be there as a countermeasure, but for now we need to get more open to restore the balance and not let our star system to collapse into another black hole.

Here is my Christmas gift for everyone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-rxe9Ayb8c
Enjoy!

Elect yourself world president , i`ll vote for you Grin

Quote from: contagion on December 25, 2014, 03:58:35 AM

BitcoinFreak12 and interlagos,

Bottom-up organization devolves to centralization and corruption, when taxes need to be collectivized. There is no way to prevent the THE IRON LAW of Political Economics[1]. The salient point is that when resources are collectivized, the flies come to the honey. You can never stop that fact of economics.

We have already tried that, it was called municipal governments, county governments, and state governments. What happened? United States. European Union. Asian Union coming 2015.

Review the relevant discussion in the thread below:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=892294.msg9933752#msg9933752

Quote from: contagion on December 24, 2014, 11:55:37 AM

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and never realizing you will get the same result every time.

Thus you are insane.

[1] In collectivized action the self interest incentives are misaligned with the global optimization.

The only form of decentralization that will resist centralization is as I have described on this page and the previous page of this thread. Review the post where I explained how to technologically invert the Political Economics so that the resources are pushing away from the center (making the intermediaries dumb) and out to the individuals at the edge of the social interaction network. In this way, paradigms shifts are never suppressed by the center power, because the center has no power.

Please stop this INSANE discussion. You are obscuring the important solutions I have provided. You are rehashing shit that humanity has tried over and over since Mesopotamia and has never worked.

I mostly agree with you, but let me say one thing about your idea of pushing away the resources.

I think the most important factor is to have a good education system, which not necessarly has to be government, it could be a privatized wonderful system.

Because there are huge problems with the education system worldwide, now i cant speak for the entire world, but i know how it works in my country. Basically its a repetitive drone-like memorization process, where you give X student Y material and he has to memorize it like a drone, instead of understanding.

I`m pretty sure it works the same way across the world, whereas instead of letting the student think for himself, and understand the material, he has to not think for himself, and just memorize it.

I think its a huge propaganda machine, where the statists try to dumb down the average people to become obedient, and never question authority, just like if you were in a military, never question the superior officer or you go to court martial, just like that.

So the edutation system, since it became state managed (after 1900 in various countires, before that we had local techers teaching with more passion), became a huge 12 year long brainwashing facility where you dumb down the average people, and make them obediend and to never question authority and make always what the teacher says.

Now for a student, it might not be so obvious, for me it took many years to figure it out, now i`m in my late 20's but i clearly remember when i was in highschool, how much propaganda was there, and its hard to see it with the eye of a student, but after a few years it becomes obvious.

I even remember my own kindengarten, where it all started, with the fact that you need to ask for permission to go to the toilet, its just a simple think like that, and it wasnt really for anything important ,because they would always let you out to go to the toilet, obviously they wont let you pee on yourself, but the question was really irrelevant.

The motive of the question was more like a psychological, to intimidate the 3 year old child to not do things what he needs to do or wants to do, but instead surrender himself to an authority from a young age and to always ask for a permission.

And believe it or not, but in my highschool aswell you had to ask for permission to go to the toilet, seriously. A 17-18 year old almost graduate student has to ask for permission from the teacher to go to the toilet at 18 Angry

There was just so much propaganda and statist psycho-infiltration there that i get nausea when i think back of my highschool.

And you see this small thing , the asking of permission to go to the toilet, in adulthood results in things like:
-asking the superior (state) for a driving permit to drive cars
-asking the state for a fishing permit to fish
-asking the state for a bulding permit to build a house
-asking the state for a gun permit to carry a gun
-asking the state for a business permit to let you sell stuff in your business
etc....

So you can't do these on your own, you always need to beg the state for those permits, because what difference does it make, i mean what could possibly go wrong if a person just fishes without permit (other than the fact that get gets a huge fine and up to 1 year jail), i mean he doesnt hurt anybody, but the state just doesnt like people to think for themselves.

The state must always infiltrate your life, it infiltrates in your TV, the internet, your personal life, and even in your mind, and its just horrible how much propaganda you get nowadays.

So my original point was, that if you want to start to change anything, we need first to wake up from this brainwashing propaganda, which starts as soon as one goes to kindengarten, and from age 3 until death, it will manipulate and control your life and also it will intimidate you, harass you and do other evil things to you and every other person on the planet.
First people need to wake up, and stop feeding our children this propaganda, we first of all need a better education system worldwide

I think thats the very first step, because if you continue to educate people in this indimidative manner, then obviously they'll become statist drones.