Quote from: DecentralizeEconomics on December 28, 2014, 06:55:23 PM

Quote from: DecentralizeEconomics on December 28, 2014, 04:43:27 AM

Quote from: inBitweTrust on December 28, 2014, 02:07:47 AM

Bitcoin will either never change to PoS or such a change won't occur till 2024 and beyond.

I suggest you gamble all you want with PoS. Seem like you are a Nxt proponent.... that currency is dying right now if you haven't noticed. Dropped from spot 5 to 8 in market cap and soon to be overtaken by Bitcoin assets like Counterparty! Ethereum, Counterparty and possibly Storj will likely overtake Nxt in 2016, expect it will drop further in market cap.

You just don't get it do you? Bitcoin is becoming more centralized as time goes on. Mining is becoming increasingly corporatized. The users of Bitcoin are separated from the security of the chain. This is against everything Satoshi wanted in a currency. The goal of Bitcoin was to place the monetary power back in the hands of the people. Bitcoin has evolved into the monster it was meant to replace.

You can criticize NXT's initial distribution and claim it is "centralized" because initially the currency was held by 73 individuals, but at the end of the day PoW vs PoS argument comes down to trust.

Do you trust external agents not to overpower BTC's hashpower? Only a fool would believe that a government doesn't have the resources to control Bitcoin. The bitcoin hashpower held by individual people (not corporations or pools), who are legitimately concerned with securing the chain and not merely profits, will never be enough to prevent an attack on BTC. The BTC chain might not be destroyed by these "attackers" but altered or restricted. What if a government decided to freeze certain accounts? They could easily coerce the corporate and pool miners to enact these changes. The individual miners and currency users would be helpless to stop it.

Do you trust that the original NXT stakeholders are actually individuals committed to decentralization and continuing the legacy of bitcoin? Seeing that the NXT IPO drew very little attention, I figure that the original stakeholders are actual individuals and not corporations, bankers, private equity or governments. That means the chain was originally secured by individuals who were drawn to the movement by the original ideals of Bitcoin. Since the start of NXT, the holders have obviously changed. A good portion of the original stakeholders have sold out. Who did they sell to? Do you think they sold to the corporations, bankers, PE and governments? I'm sure some did, but does this allow for these entities to attack the chain? If together and working in concert these groups acquired over 500 million NXT, then yes. If not though, the chain is secured by decentralized individuals. The more individuals that join NXT the stronger and more resistant to attack it becomes. Soon it becomes extremely difficult to purchase enough stake to attack without driving up the price to a ridiculous amount and it becomes equally difficult to coerce enough individuals. When NXT forms its economic cluster, the stake requirements to attack will rise to 90%. This makes acquiring the required stake to launch an attack practically impossible especially if you consider that some stakeholders will just never sell.

So, do you trust external agents to not to overpower BTC's hashpower or do you trust that NXT's stakeholders are actually legitimate individuals?

It seems that no one could come up with a valid counterargument to my statement. When all you get are responses like this:

Quote from: johnyj on December 28, 2014, 08:29:56 AM

This thread clearly shows how bored people are these days, trying to generate value by talking Grin

You know you hit the nail on the head.

It is unfortunate that some individuals who are obviously invested in Bitcoin denounce a cryptoplatform like NXT which was born out of the Bitcoin movement. They act if as though there weren't exchanges to sell their BTC for NXT and that NXT is a private club which they cannot join. It looks to others as if they are upset that they didn't invest in NXT earlier. These peoples' jealousy towards NXT clouds their judgment and makes them fail to see that NXT is simply a continuation of the original Bitcoin movement. The people who founded NXT were originally Bitcoiners and shared their hopes and aspirations for a decentralized economy controlled by the people.

Some Bitcoiners claim that NXT is trying to destroy decentralization. We are not. The truth is we are trying to save and uphold the ideals of the original movement. Most miners no longer care about decentralization; they only care about profits. The ability of a currency holder to secure his investment is at the very core of decentralization. Allowing external actors to infringe upon a currency holder's right to secure their chain results in the currency no longer being decentralized. A system must be designed to resist external actors if a currency is to remain autonomous.

BCNext (BitCoinNext) created NXT not to undermine Bitcoin, but to continue its legacy. We share the same cause. We are allies in the same fight.

Long live decentralization! Power to the people!

You make some good points.

Protection against 51% attacks is a concern.
For those unaware, there have been some serious
hybrid PoW/PoS proposals for Bitcoin, which you can find here:
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake

Right now, there doesn't seem much talk about implementing
these ideas, and I'm guessing the reason is that governments
intent on attacking Bitcoin would have
the resources to do so regardless.

I suspect that when Bitcoin becomes bigger,
these will get more attention.

In the meantime, if you really like Proof of Stake, feel
free to invest in and promote NXT, Peercoin or anything
else.