http://m.nasdaq.com/article/envion-ag-envion-and-fraunhofer-to-start-research-co-operation-20171109-00299

Would a scammer really go to the trouble of reaching out to Research Institute - surely if they are going to be research they are going to want to look at one of these MMUs before signing any agreement. These guys have a big reputation. And then to promote this as a Press Release on the Nasdaq. Wow if they are scammers thats pretty ballsy to have potentially big firms in the US start to look into their business.

To me a scammer would shy away from this imo - keep it on facebook, youtube etc.

How did they commission Fraunhofer if the MMU is not a viable product ?

You work to promote your opinion as the truth whilst the fact is, it is just an opinion only based on inference, just like mine is an opinion, also based on inference. Except I'm not saying mine is the truth I'm saying my point are more logical and make more sense!!

Firstly, yes, defrauding Swiss investors does get people many years in prison. If they were scammers why did they pick one of the most severe countries that does not tolerate investment scams - there are plenty of offshore places you can set up a company?

Secondly, why launch a security token - which will bring down the scrutiny of regulators on your company - seriously as a scammer you want to be under the radar - you would go with a crypto token only surely?

Thirdly, why bother with a well-written 56 page Whitepaper when a 10 page one will do? (The writing is sophisticated and complete)

Fourth, how do you get a prominent business man (Seif Shieshakly) with a reputable, established company that focuses on Lean Manufacturing techniques to vouch for capabilities to run an operation of this scale, if you are a scammer ?

Fifth, why claim a high ROI in first year, when a scammer would claim low ROI in first year and then higher ROI in second and third years ? Surely a scammer would claim low ROI of 20%, which you can pay from investor funds in the first year, whilst making off with the 80% whilst no one is the wiser. Why claim 161% when you know you're going to look like a scammer within 3 months if you dont start making serious earnings payments.

As scammers, they sure are crap at being scammers! OR they are what they say and it is your inferences that are wrong.

They've promised Letters of Intent and Notorised statement from a big4 auditor before the ICO starts. Lets wait for these to become available before deciding on what is the truth ??

Some important info!

I've been posting on the Telegram forum for Envion (poster Andy)

I contacted Seif Shieshakly who is one of the consultant Team members at Envion. He specialises in Lean Management (i.e. how to run logistics & production in the most efficient way) and I asked him his view on the capability of Envion to deliver. He is the managing partner of Four Principles a well known Lean Management company in Dubai (I used to work in Dubai) - he has a great reputation outside of Envion to protect. I would highly doubt he would put his name against an organisation that is out to scam people and unable to deliver.

He was happy for me to post, on this forum, his written comments to me, quoted verbatim below:

"The Envion team has spent a long time engineering every detail of the mobile mining operation with the goal of mass production in mind. This has been thoroughly discussed and anticipated since day one.

The team is very experienced with regard to what they do. Envion has a mix of very talented people that have to a large degree worked together before and know how to run a mass production operation like this. They have existing connections in China for the mass production of hardware, and already have secured hardware supply of GPUs and coupled with their intimate supply chain knowledge, particularly in Asia, along with their access to high skills sets available in Germany, I believe the capability to ramp up production as well as remotely manage the anticipated high volumes of containers are both there."

On the telegram forum I've asked a number of penetrating questions.

I've checked their business formally exists in Switzerland - yes, its been open for a relatively short time - given you have to state the nature of your business I think this short time frame is not unexpected. I've also run their hash numbers through a mining calc to see they dovetail with the earnings quoted - which they do. I've run some calcs on the number of MMUs and earnings per MMU which convey that once they are all up and running they can deliver the stated ROI. I've confirmed they intend to make fully working MMUs all in China and get them running and earning straight off the production line even before shipping - this one fact makes the ROI much more attainable. In addition they have stated their intent of producing dozens of MMUs in parallel and having all the required MMUs completed within 2 to 4 months from January - the aim being 2 months but 4 months to be sure.

I was very sceptical at first and initially believed this was a scam but scammers do not put their name on the website domain whois, they register domains anonymously and companies offshore out of prying eyes. Switzerland has a reputation for being strict on regulations - you would be nuts to set up a scam company in Switzerland. Scammers do not get a prominent business man such as Seif Shieshakly to give a great open endorsement of their capability - such an endorsement if Envion goes in the crapper or is a scam would kill his business.

Also scammers would not choose to create a security token requiring the listing of the token on a regulated exchange and not on an unregulated crypto exchange. The only reason for creating a security token is because you expect to be making regular payments to the owner of the token - which would definitely get the company in big regulatory trouble if they registered as a crypto only. If it was a scam it would be a crypto token only not a security token with, ironically, a down-played ROI to avoid suspicion ( low ROI to start in year 1 and big promises in years 2 and 3 to give them a year to disappear!).

Lets face it, most people would be interested in a crypto offering ROI of 30%. There are many crypto icos with a 10 page whitepaper and using a free copy of existing publicly available source code and just an idea of developing a coin - these companies have $200M+ valuation on exchanges without anything tangible.

Another aspect to consider is that a company with a security token listed on a regulated exchange can be bought by institutional investors (institutional investors shy away or are prevented from their charter from buying on unregulated exchanges). If Envion are successful in establishing an income stream of anything above 40% the institutional investors will want to buy this security token and will pay a good premium above the $1 (or discounted 70c) buy price, which will only increase if payments continue in years 2 and 3.

Once I see evidence of the letters of intent and notorised confirmation from one of the big4 auditors -  I am ready to invest!!! All this "tyre kicking" confirms to me that they are in it to win it and can deliver on their promises.

Of course, this is my opinion and everyone should obviously also do their own due diligence.
(and No, I'm not from Envion nor have any connection to Envion!!!)