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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 17:34:06 UTC

Quote from: pa on December 03, 2014, 04:48:39 PM

Quote from: CoolGecko on December 03, 2014, 03:43:54 PM

@fluffypony;

Thankyou for your response.

If they are the same people, changing what the copywrite says doesn't mean anything. If they are not the same people, it's possible that it was initially given to the Cryptonote developers, but both parties decided that it should go to the Bytecoin developers. There are several things that could have happened; we don't know.

As far as them being separate entities, it's pretty clear that they are separate entities now. Them being separate entities in the past? It appears that they probably were, but it says that they worked closely together. Maybe some of the people where in both groups. We don't know; it's unclear. If they were separate entities and worked closely together, it's reasonable to say that both groups were involved in developing the basecode.

From the references you gave, to reach the conclusion that the Bytecoin developers took the Cryptonote developers code and don't deserve any credit for development seems pretty far fetched to me. Even if they don't deserve all the credit, they deserve part of the credit for sure. And usually the way it is, the persons who actually write the code or their employers get copywrite credit. So even if many of the ideas came from the Crytonote developers, if the Bytecoin developers actually wrote the code, the copywrites should be assigned to them. Copywrites are not given for ideas, they are given for actual code written. If the Crytonote developers wanted legal credit for their ideas, they would have had to patent them. That could have been the reason why the copywrite was changed.

What "credit" are they looking for? If they want fame and status, it would help if they identified themselves, told the truth about the beginnings of cryptonote/bytecoin, and answered some tough questions. Instead, what we get is a puppet show and obfuscation. If they want money and a share in the future of cryptonote technology, nothing is stopping them from buying XMR. It's on sale.

I hope you are not suggesting that THEY want credit. I never said that. One person in this thread unfairly said that they don't any deserve credit for the codebase. I corrected her. And as for not revealing their identities, please read my following post where I explain why they might not want to do that.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740112.msg9727717#msg9727717

I'm out of here.

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 15:43:54 UTC

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 14:21:01 UTC

Quote from: fluffypony on December 03, 2014, 02:01:14 PM

Your continued implication that the Bytecoin developers were responsible for a codebase that is clearly marked as having been developed by the CryptoNote developers is the only thing happening that is blatantly immoral.

Maybe you didn't read what I said in response to you above. It's my understanding that the Cryptonote developers and the Bytecoin developers were the same people, when the coin was being developed. I think that they may have formed separate teams now though. I haven't seen anyone claim that the Bytecoin developers didn't make the codebase before. I could be wrong as I don't know the history well. If you are right about this prove it to me.

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 14:02:42 UTC

Quote from: othe on December 03, 2014, 01:37:46 PM

The Quazarcoin guy wanted to launch it as Monero first, just to piss Monero off. At a time where Monero already existed.

Really, well all I can say is that he seems like a decent fellow to me. In fact, I like him better than some of the folks on this thread.

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 13:50:43 UTC

I've read the responses to my posts and don't see anything that I think would be provable against the Bytecoin developers. If they don't want to reveal their identity that is up to them; it's not a character fault. Remember that even Satoshi Yamamoto hasn't revealed his identity. For a few months I was working on Asiacoin as a developer. One time I revealed my identity to another developer and was advised against that, by the same developer. I'm not sure of the reason why, but think that people might be afraid of being sued by people that mine or buy the coin and lose money, even if it's not the developers fault. Frivolous lawsuits are common in the US. Often the victim will settle out of court to avoid the high court costs, even if innocent.

Another thing that bothers me about this discussion is the fact that people are glad to accept and use all the work that the Bytecoin developers put into Cryptonote currencies and at the same time are saying that the Bytecoin developers are immoral. Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't seem right. If you really believe that you have a moral high-ground over the Bytecoin developers you should develop your own cryptocurrency. That probably wouldn't be possible for most coins because there is a big difference between developing a cryptocoin from scratch and just maintaining one that was already developed and making minor improvements to it. Most developers wouldn't be up to the task.

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 13:14:33 UTC

Quote from: othe on December 03, 2014, 07:57:05 AM

Quote

No, Monero is not morally better. In fact, I'm disgusted by the way some Monero people have been attacking other Cryptonote coins, not just bytecoin but also Quazarcoin. If you are a Monero developer, isn't it more productive to work on improving your own coin than attacking other coins?

Quazarcoin was even called MONERO before it was renamed to quazar, just to piss us off, so much for productivity.

Thanks for that; I didn't know that Monero became Quazarcoin. But maybe you aren't telling the whole story because I remember reading that there was a disagreement among developers and Monero forked to become Monero and Bitmonero. This often happens in free (as in freedom) software projects, so it is not surprising to me. If there is a fork I'm sure that both sides would like to keep the original name. Probably what happened was that Mr Seis, the Quazarcoin developer, had fewer developers on his side so he consented to change the name of his fork to Quazarcoin.

I don't know what all the issues were but do know that Quazarcoin has a longer emission curve than Monero. I personally support that decision because it makes the coin more stable.

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 08:23:36 UTC

Quote from: Este Nuno on December 03, 2014, 08:19:05 AM

Do you realize what you're saying here?

You go out of your way to expose villains that lie about a premine in their altcoin. Yet you claim that the Bytecoin developers are not villians despite lying about an 82% premine.

Did they claim there was a lower premine? If so prove it to me.

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 08:19:50 UTC

Quote from: fluffypony on December 03, 2014, 08:07:57 AM

Quote from: CoolGecko on December 03, 2014, 08:00:20 AM

Oh really? The developer says that the premine is 1.5%, and I tell the miners it's really 18% and I'm being disrespectful? You make me laugh. And for your information these "developers" hadn't spent hardly any time on these coins. Copy, change some variables, make up a bitcointalk page (with their lies) and launch the coin.

Lrn2sarcasm plx

You do realise that the CryptoNote developers did all the work, right? Which is why the original Bytecoin source says "Copyright the CryptoNote developers". More recently they changed the license and the copyright, but that doesn't change the fact that the Bytecoin developers just slapped a name on the CryptoNote developer's hard work, ghostmined 82%, and then tried to sell it as a fait accompli. There's even a thread on the CryptoNote forum somewhere where they mention the recent (at that stage) rift between themselves and the Bytecoin developers, I would imagine solely because the Bytecoin developers did nothing more than "copy, change some variables, make up a bitcointalk page (with their lies) and launch the coin".

It's my understanding that the CryptoNote developers and Bytecoin developers were the same people, though maybe now they formed separate groups.

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 08:00:20 UTC

Quote from: fluffypony on December 03, 2014, 07:49:51 AM

Quote from: CoolGecko on December 03, 2014, 07:41:26 AM

No, I'm not new. I know that the Cryptocoin development is full of scams. In fact, I've single handedly destroyed a number of bitcoin clone coins simply by looking at the source code and and revealing to the miners that the developer was being dishonest about the coin.

Well that's really disrespectful to the developers that made those clones. You didn't even acknowledge all the effort and hard work they put into it. How dare you, sir!

/hypocrisy

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 07:41:26 UTC

Quote from: fluffypony on December 03, 2014, 07:24:34 AM

Quote from: CoolGecko on December 03, 2014, 07:13:11 AM

Hard work? I doubt that the original poster put in 1/1000th the amount of work that the Bytecoin developers put in. Software development is a lot of work. I probably should have been nicer to the original poster in my comment, but was somewhat peeved by his attitude. I am not a Bytecoin developer, but still the word ungrateful screams to me. Ungrateful for the work they have done in the past and ungrateful for the work they continue to do. As to the accusations, sorry but I don't believe everything I read on the Internet.

I'm not saying any more.

You must be new around here.

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 07:13:11 UTC

Quote from: smooth on December 03, 2014, 06:26:25 AM

I'm responding to you here because I happen to think you are way off base attacking the original poster who did a ton of hard work to uncover and document a rather sophisticated fraud effort.

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 05:55:26 UTC

Quote from: smooth on December 03, 2014, 04:58:25 AM

If you really want to work on a "learning experience" I'd suggest you do just that and stop wasting your time with "Quazarcoin" which hasn't really added anything to this process at all.

So now I'm wasting my time? I was under the impression that you are a developer, but I guess I was wrong. Don't you realize that if I develop a HTML wallet for Quazarcoin, that the same wallet could be used , with minor modifications, on other cryptonote coins as well? The API is the same.

I think you are the same person who goes to the Quazarcoin threads and trashtalks Quazarcoin. Honestly, I like the developer. When the likes of you come and starts trashtalking, he tries to make peace and advises the posters not to fight. I don't know how good of a developer he is, but definitely like him as a person. He has the right idea.

If you think that trashtalking other coins is going to help Monero, think again. To me it's just low and makes me not want to associate with Monero. But I'm not going to judge a whole community based on my negative experience with some and say that all the Monero people are like that.

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 04:50:45 UTC

Quote from: smooth on December 03, 2014, 03:57:14 AM

Quote from: CoolGecko on December 03, 2014, 02:47:37 AM

@Smooth:
I don't hold many Quazarcoins or other coins, so that's not an issue for me. But I am working on improving the user interface in my own limited way. For me the learning experience is more important than actually profiting from the coins.

I commend you for working on something as a learning experience, though of course I can't be sure what you say is true (though in reality it doesn't matter).

None of that means the OP of this thread should be "embarrassed" for the huge amount of work he put into uncovering all this stuff and pulling all the details together. I have a particular appreciation for it because I was active on the Bytecoin thread from the beginning and I saw a lot of the lies. I recognized that it was likely a load of crap but I couldn't really prove it. I had no idea about some of the other stuff, like fake whitepapers and shill coins, but it doesn't surprise me at all given what I saw.

What I do know is that there is much baloney being spread around, so I don't take much of what people say very seriously.

These things I know are real: I know that the Bytecoin developers are the ones who developed Cryptonote coins. I am a software developer myself, and I know that this technology didn't appear overnight; it must have taken them years to develop it.

While they were developing and perfecting it, they mined a lot of coins, most of the Bytecoins that will ever be circulated. They could have just thrown all their old coins out and started with a new blockchain when the coin was released, so they aren't saints. But they are not villains either, they gave the world a new cryptocoin technology, better than bitcoin in several ways.

If the Bytecoin developers were selfish they would have patented the technology, so that no one else could use it, but they didn't do that. Instead, they released it as free-software so that others can use it to create their own coins and build on it.

The original poster seemed to be concerned that the Bytecoin developers aren't well known. Personally, I don't give a rat's ass whether they are known or not. The fact is they did something good.

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 03:27:36 UTC

Quote from: solid12345 on December 03, 2014, 02:23:19 AM

I operate under the assumption everyone has a selfish agenda.

fyi I don't own any cryptonote coins.

If you operate under that assumption, you'll USUALLY be right. But people aren't always selfish. I'm sure that there must be cryptocoin developers out there who are in it because they are creative and enjoy creating new things and making their ideas work. And there must be some who believe that cryptocurrencies, not controlled by governments, are a better way forward than government printed money.

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 02:47:37 UTC

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 02:25:39 UTC

@smooth
No, Monero is not morally better. In fact, I'm disgusted by the way some Monero people have been attacking other Cryptonote coins, not just bytecoin but also Quazarcoin. If you are a Monero developer, isn't it more productive to work on improving your own coin than attacking other coins?

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Re: Blowing the lid off the CryptoNote/Bytecoin scam (with the exception of Monero)

CoolGecko

on 03/12/2014, 01:57:34 UTC

rethink-your-strategy should be embarrassed by this thread. The Bytecoin developers, no doubt, have put enormous effort into developing Cryptonote. They have in past and continue to be the ones who are doing most of the work. They have made their work open source so that others can build on top of it. And somehow they are trying to cheat people?

Other coins like Monero and Quazarcoin are using the code developed by Bytecoin and that is OK; the license permits that. But don't pretend that the Monero developers are morally better.

Complex code like this takes years to develop and I appreciate the Bytecoin developer's efforts. It's refreshing to be involved in Cryptonote after seeing so many bitcoin clones that have no innovation at all, but are produced only to enrich the developer.

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Re: [ANN] [QCN] QuazarCoin | Full privacy&data protection | Egalitarian PoW

CoolGecko

on 19/11/2014, 17:11:34 UTC

Sorry, I haven't created a Github page for the wallet yet because I ran into a problem. I discovered that when I enter large transaction values, the transaction values get truncated. It turns out that Javascript only supports about 15 1/2 digits accuracy before it starts truncating. I would expect it to be much larger than that on the 64bit machine that I'm using, but Javascript math is based on a ECMA standard that I think is about 52bits precision for positive floating point and 31 bits precision for positive integers. I made an arbitrary precision math module, which partially solves the problem. I also need to do something about the RPC client. The RPC client, converts the coin value string transmitted over the network to a javascript number. Maybe I'll have to modify that so it doesn't parse the string to a number, but leaves it as a string, which isn't limited. I need to add these numbers up and the math module has a function that adds up character strings representing numbers of any size. So it will be a while before I put up the github page; I need to get this stuff working first.

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Re: [ANN] [QCN] QuazarCoin | Full privacy&data protection | Egalitarian PoW

CoolGecko

on 11/11/2014, 16:32:12 UTC

I already wrote the code and used the values 0..5. I don't want to be real restrictive in the values that I allow. I just don't want to allow crazy values that might cause problems. I wrote it as a regular input, where you just enter it on a keyboard, but I'm thinking that I might change it to a selector where you select 1 of 6 values. That way I can put short comments beside each value. Getting the range right isn't a big deal, because this is something that can be easily changed in the future.

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Re: [ANN] [QCN] QuazarCoin | Full privacy&data protection | Egalitarian PoW

CoolGecko

on 10/11/2014, 14:56:50 UTC

Quote from: OrientA on November 10, 2014, 12:16:54 PM

mixin = 2-5 is OK. The effectiveness depends the number of total transactions in one block. The more transactions, the better.

Great, I'll set the range to that for now. Thanks a lot; you have been very helpful.