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Showing 14 of 14 results by DiceMiner
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Topic
Board Gambling
Re: dice.ninja - Now with Plinko!
by
DiceMiner
on 11/10/2014, 21:19:45 UTC
All this stuff made me think that dmf was a morally upstanding person, and I was far shadier than him .. and I'd never dream of stealing peoples money. But now I'm just left with a real bitter taste in my mouth about the whole thing, and feeling rather cynical at the moment.


I played on DiceNinja a little and I needed DMF's help two times. Once, I was having trouble with their 2FA and the other time, he needed to fill up their hot wallet so I could withdraw.

Both times, he could have pretended to be offline and run off with some serious coin, but like mentioned above, he was beyond upstanding. I had managed to get a little profit for myself from DN and DMF even joked, candidly, that he wished I would win elsewhere and lose there.

Besides the obvious reasons, it's really a shame. When it came to UI and design, it was definitely one of the best BTC dice sites around.
Post
Topic
Board Service Discussion
Re: 100 BTC was stolen from my Primedice account. Please see thread.
by
DiceMiner
on 09/10/2014, 19:32:00 UTC
Thanks guys. I appreciate the BTC-e lead. Emailed their support last night, asking if "1FsVc..." belonged to them. Unfortunately, they said they can not give that type info unless the police are involved.

Not saying I would go that far, but just thinking out loud-
Does anyone know who I would go to if I were to get the police involved? I really can't imagine going to the local substation and trying to explain to them was a Bitcoin is, let alone having them get involved. Also, what jurisdiction does this fall under?

Post
Topic
Board Service Discussion
Re: WARNING: 100 BTC disappeared when deposited at Primedice
by
DiceMiner
on 07/10/2014, 21:48:58 UTC
OP here.
That's pretty much the gist of it...  Let me just add a few details from my end:

It's also important to note that diceminer had completed several other 100 coin deposits and numerous cashouts prior without issue and since the incident there have been a significant increase in 100+ coin deposits/cashouts and no issues.

With my "DiceMiner2" account on PD, I had deposited 100 BTC twice. The first time, I won 20 BTC, the second time, the theft occurred. Also, I recently found a post while browsing, about my other PD account at the time:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=208986.msg8896057#msg8896057

So, with 2 different PD accounts, I had won a total of 40 BTC and successfully deposited and withdrew my 100 BTC principal 2 out of 3 times. I guess the new 2-factor that was added as a result of this theft has brought more whales.


The Investigation
I was secretive about what had happened as I ended up setting up logs on diceminer's account to try and find out who was accessing it as this was a serious theft. I attempted to bait out the person by putting coins on the account and then blocking it from cashing out, only one person ended up cashing out the "trap" cashout and that was diceminer himself unfortunately.

When Stunna and I started discussing privately, he was incredibly gracious in helping me attempt to find this guy. Initially, the plan was the send 100 BTC to my PD account, while an "anti-cashout" feature was implemented so no coins could leave the account, in the event the thief came back and tried it again.

On September 24th, Stunna informed me that the trap was in place and to not login (so as to not cause any confusion). A few days passed with no activity, which was not really unusual, but what puzzled me was that there was absolutely no sign of any deposit into my PD account, when viewed through the blockchain. To me, this was the entire point, because how else would the thief know there was any bait? I logged into the account to see for myself and when I got it, 5 BTC was added to the balance in PD, but none of those 5 coins showed up in the blockchain. I tried withdrawing the dust that I had left over (approx. 0.00101 BTC, I believe) and the "anti-cashout" feature was definitely in effect. Also, Stunna informed me that my entry had been logged, so that was all in working order as well.

He told me that he had credited the account from the back-end and when I explained why I thought that may be ineffective as bait, he finally credited 4 BTC to the account, using actual coins, on September 28th. Unfortunately he withdrew the bait only a day after, on the 29th:

https://blockchain.info/address/12UrtgL7XWbM6mMfZyzSgfEoVMFMDXdFta


If the user ran a script though then there is no way for us to defend against that, I had some concern that this was the case here as this occurred a day or two after someone started spamming chat with the "PD Exploit" script and his video contained the greasemonkey add-on but I'll trust diceminer's word that no scripts were involved.

Thank you Stunna. I really have no need to any cheats or exploits, as I bet very conservatively, over a long period of time. Many people that were active on Just-Dice may remember me from this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=576673.msg6319022#msg6319022

All I need is a secure site that is run in an honest way, to make my coins. Sometimes I wonder if using the same "DiceMiner" name may have tipped off the thief (or thieves) to my whereabouts. It's moot now, but that type of thing is always in the back of my head now. Needless to say, I will be using new, unfamiliar names from now on.


Conclusion
I conclude that the 100 coin loss was most likely  a result of the weak password matching the username of the account which allowed a thief to successfully commit a simple password guessing attack which could only have been prevented by us banning weak passwords, providing 2fa at the time or by the user setting a more secure password. It's important to note that we had sufficiently strong brute-force/guessing limits in place which is why I feel that this attack was not automated and was simply a random person manually plugging in a few password attempts on the account and getting lucky.

I believe this is part of the story, but there must be something else we are not seeing or considering. My sleep and gambling schedule is fairly erratic and hard to predict. It just seems implausible that somebody was squatting on my PD account and repeatedly refreshing his browser, in the hope that I would login and deposit.

Especially since my stolen coins all eventually ended up at the infamous "1FsVcdeHbpvUVT3gjeuVR2ZSDnpcsJMsLL", I am inclined to think that this is more than just some thief working on his own. Whoever is behind this has many "irons-in-the-fire" and is scamming on many levels. Also, he could possibly own millions of USD worth of coins. If that is truly the case, he may not be that anonymous after all.


Many of diceminer's coins appear to have been sent here https://blockchain.info/address/1FsVcdeHbpvUVT3gjeuVR2ZSDnpcsJMsLL  . Anyone with any information regarding this should shoot me a PM as I'll continue to do what I can to help him recover his lost coins. I thank diceminer for his cooperation and understand throughout all of this, I'll keep my eyes and ears open to see if anyone has any information.

Again, I would like to thank Stunna for all his past help during this ordeal and his continued help, should any new information arise. After the implementation of 2-factor, Primedice is even safer than before. One can deposit and play there with confidence. Of course, this does not bring MY coins back, so I will welcome any leads any time. So, if anyone has any new info, or even a hunch, please chime in. Even if it is only concerning the "1FsVcd..." address. Whoever is behind my theft has burned many, many others on Bitcointalk.


DiceMiner
Post
Topic
Board Service Discussion
Re: 100 BTC was stolen from my Primedice account. Please see thread.
by
DiceMiner
on 05/10/2014, 03:01:28 UTC
OP here-
I appreciate the support from people that feel my pain from this loss.
Stunna and I are still talking behind the scenes, but I am ready for him to post here.
Post
Topic
Board Service Discussion
Re: WARNING: 100 BTC disappeared when deposited at Primedice
by
DiceMiner
on 03/10/2014, 00:45:13 UTC
Interesting information what with Apple users saying that their computers are virus / malware free with this discovery you have to be careful whatever os your using... Feel for you 100btc is a lot to go missing  Shocked

All I can say is there is no issue with the security of primedice, I'm hoping OP will consider editing his post within the next few days with the full story of what happened. I'm not going to share what happened without permission but once he explains you will understand why I've chosen not to.

There are users who choose to store hundreds of coins on their account at one time and have had zero issues, if you have any fear just enable 2FA and as long as your PC is secure you should be good.


Hi, OP here.
Stunna has been incredibly helpful in the situation so far. The current theory is that a thief must have compromised my account by brute-forcing my weak password. Since there would be no way for anyone on the outside to know exactly when I had been online at PD (since I did not make any bets or make my presence known in the chatroom on the day of the theft), they must have been monitoring the blockchain for large deposits from my personal wallet to my PD address somehow. Possibly through the use of some script? I have no clue...  Sad

I have to hand it to the thief for having enough technical know-how and impeccable timing to pull off the withdrawal in the incredibly small (literally 2 minute) window between confirmation and my first attempted bet.

If anyone out there has seen this type of theft before, PLEASE LET US KNOW any details you have, as this is the first time I have seen anything like it.

Now that 2FA is available, hopefully this will be the last time.

Thanks,
DiceMiner


Don't mean to prod, but you haven't answer my question from before about what greasemonkey scripts you are running. The "scripts" you named were browser plugins, not actual scripts that you paste into greasemonkey and run.


Look I don't know what else to tell you. Honestly, I don't remember when I installed Greasemonkey, or exactly why. What I listed previously is what I am running now. If it were truly a malware problem, why would the thieves chose such a circuitous way of stealing my BTC? Why not take them directly from my wallet?

Anyhow, I am trying not to pollute this thread with any [possibly unrelated] cross-talk. If something minor jumps out at you, please let me or somebody know via IM. If you've found a smoking gun, please share.
Post
Topic
Board Service Discussion
Re: WARNING: 100 BTC disappeared when deposited at Primedice
by
DiceMiner
on 03/10/2014, 00:34:03 UTC
I'm hoping OP will consider editing his post within the next few days with the full story of what happened. I'm not going to share what happened without permission but once he explains you will understand why I've chosen not to.

The current theory is that a thief must have compromised my account by brute-forcing my weak password.

I don't understand why Stunna chose not to share that. It sounds like you don't really know what happened yet if that's all you've come up with. Is there more to the full story that hasn't been shared here yet?

Did the server log show a bunch of failed login attempts as the attacker tried to guess the weak password? If he brute-forced it, you would expect that to be the case.

It's because his password was not bruteforced, we have measures to prevent this and server logs indicate this wasn't the case at all. I'll post the full story tomorrow.


OP here again. Ok, according to Stunna and I's private convo, apparently this was not the case. Sorry for the misinformation. The more I learn, the more this just gets confusing. I was under the initial impression (based on our private correspondence) that you did not log login attempts at the time of the theft. On Sept 25th, Stunna wrote:

"We had minimal logging prior (on account creation) now we are logging on cashout."

But before I contribute to any more confusion again, I will wait until Stunna posts his new findings.
Post
Topic
Board Service Discussion
Re: WARNING: 100 BTC disappeared when deposited at Primedice
by
DiceMiner
on 02/10/2014, 06:58:49 UTC
Interesting information what with Apple users saying that their computers are virus / malware free with this discovery you have to be careful whatever os your using... Feel for you 100btc is a lot to go missing  Shocked

All I can say is there is no issue with the security of primedice, I'm hoping OP will consider editing his post within the next few days with the full story of what happened. I'm not going to share what happened without permission but once he explains you will understand why I've chosen not to.

There are users who choose to store hundreds of coins on their account at one time and have had zero issues, if you have any fear just enable 2FA and as long as your PC is secure you should be good.


Hi, OP here.
Stunna has been incredibly helpful in the situation so far. The current theory is that a thief must have compromised my account by brute-forcing my weak password. Since there would be no way for anyone on the outside to know exactly when I had been online at PD (since I did not make any bets or make my presence known in the chatroom on the day of the theft), they must have been monitoring the blockchain for large deposits from my personal wallet to my PD address somehow. Possibly through the use of some script? I have no clue...  Sad

I have to hand it to the thief for having enough technical know-how and impeccable timing to pull off the withdrawal in the incredibly small (literally 2 minute) window between confirmation and my first attempted bet.

If anyone out there has seen this type of theft before, PLEASE LET US KNOW any details you have, as this is the first time I have seen anything like it.

Now that 2FA is available, hopefully this will be the last time.

Thanks,
DiceMiner
Post
Topic
Board Service Discussion
Re: WARNING: 100 BTC disappeared when deposited at Primedice
by
DiceMiner
on 22/09/2014, 10:01:06 UTC

With regards to the 0.03 balance, it appears that was tipped to your account given that your tip profit is currently 0.03.
EDIT: The 0.03 is from our automated leaderboard daily reward, click the leaderboard tab and view the giveaway terms at the bottom.

Potential Cause
EDIT2: I also noticed you have the greasemonkey add on and need to know if you were running any scripts at the time and I'd like permission to review it if so. Greasemonkey runs scripts on site load which could have made it possible for someone to have thefted your balance. That's my current theory but I'd need more information from yourself of course. A Greasemonkey script could have withdrawn without using the UI which would have not caused the balance to lower. It's important for us to know if you are running any greasemonkey scripts at all currently even non PD ones.

Thanks, I will redact all the stuff about the 0.03 BTC.

As far as the Greasemonkey scripts, I run:
  - Adblock Plus
  - Stylish
  - Dailymotion (re-add playlists)
  - the usual Quicktime, Shockwave, Java, Google Earth

Hope this helps. Ok it is late.
Post
Topic
Board Service Discussion
Re: WARNING: 100 BTC disappeared when deposited at Primedice
by
DiceMiner
on 22/09/2014, 09:51:22 UTC

"Useless" cross talk gets answers and Explores possibilities. Wound up for something that doesn't involve me? How do you know that i don't play on that site and concerned with the outcome? It involves me when you post on a public forum that i'm a member of. Perhaps if you didn't want my useless crosstalk or my involvement you might want to consider a PM to stunna so i can't chime in.

You seem to Be more focused on pointing out problems with PD and their security than the $40,000 that was "Missing" Seems strange to me and i still doubt your story. How do we know you are not associated with the Address in the link i posted regarding the other scam? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=744692.0     This is where Crosstalk gets people asking questions and finds answers. Maybe the answers come back you are right or maybe the answers come back you are a liar?

The good thing about the Blockchain is that it can be traced from one address to another and eventually comes full circle.


By "useless" I mean the vitriol and half-assed assumptions you keep lobbing out there. You had one good point (that we all would have reached anyways) but you drowned it out with your spontaneous brainfarts. Besides, how any times can you change your mind in one day?

"Got my fingers crossed for you."
"100 BTC feel bad for OP"
"Is that your Address? if so he is trying to scam"  (learn to read a timestamp, dumbfuck)
"Ya he's a scammer no doubt."
"Nothing is right about this accusation."  (the only one doing any accusing is your sorry ass)
"I'll keep quiet and see how it unfolds. Good luck to both parties involved."

Schizophrenic much? Honestly, if I wanted to scam Stunna for 100 BTC, why would I make everything public? Why wouldn't I strictly deal with him in private (which I am also doing. Surprise. You DON'T know everything)? Why don't you do us all a favor and trace the coins through blockchain and find the real culprit?

And yes I did move the remaining coins out of my address to my Coinbase account. I am not crazy about people seeing my balance and when this is all through, I am going to make my business private again. Is that ok with you? Please tell us how this is related to the 2 topics you linked. Or better yet, don't say anything at all.

You strike me as the type of person to speak before they think. Your post history only reinforces this.  In truth, no matter how much you try to bullshit us, you really have no business here. You are just muddying the waters. Go back to the "insult me" topic where you shine. Grown-ups are talking here. Don't worry, one day you'll have a thread of your own.

TL;DR (since I know reading hurts yer noggin'): Come with something useful or just go away.

Post
Topic
Board Service Discussion
Re: WARNING: 100 BTC disappeared when deposited at Primedice
by
DiceMiner
on 22/09/2014, 04:31:45 UTC
Thank you Stunna, for the prompt reply and your level-headed approach. Also, I appreciate Dooglus' input and rebuttals to otrkid70's USELESS crosstalk. Seriously dude, WTF is up your ass?? You seem incredibly wound up for something that does not involve you at all. And to answer your question about the PREVIOUS 100-in-100-out transaction, that was 10 minutes worth of play because that's all I usually need. I won 20 BTC in that session and then I cashed out right after. I did this 3 times with 2 accounts in the past few days. I did it manually, like I always do when playing large hands. Some people don't want to spend their entire lives rolling dice or refreshing Bitcointalk, waiting on replies. Get it?!


Regarding previous questions:
  (1A) My computer is not shared, I am the sole user.
  (2A) No script or bot was used to roll.
  (3A) My PD password has never been used elsewhere.
  (4A) No new plugins or software was added before the problem transaction.
  (5A) I have scanned for malware and no threats were found. Note: I am on a Mac.


So right now, can we agree on the following:
  (1B) "1H53RfXyu59Wx3cyX8PBsJ6ZphJ5K1KGzJ" belongs to DiceMiner (my wallet address).
  (2B) "12UrtgL7XWbM6mMfZyzSgfEoVMFMDXdFta" belongs to Primedice.
  (3B) All 100 BTC were moved from PD's wallet to "1PrZQH8L7aU9qyhbgLvm4zNjfoC1wGevAs" instantly afterwards.
  (4B) Then, 21 & 29 BTC moved into "1AB5fAh4eUT3vLcYnzss5dAfuDznEbXRmT" & "1A1GYrx2qvPBr1PyqHJ5ibG6ECnJBcqey5" respectively.
  (5B) After landing in those two wallets, the entire balances were moved to "1FsVcdeHbpvUVT3gjeuVR2ZSDnpcsJMsLL" an address that has been referenced in a past scam accusation (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=744692.0). Thank you for that otrkid, that was actually useful.
  (6B) "1PrZQH8L7aU9qyhbgLvm4zNjfoC1wGevAs" , "1AB5fAh4eUT3vLcYnzss5dAfuDznEbXRmT" and "1A1GYrx2qvPBr1PyqHJ5ibG6ECnJBcqey5" do not belong to either DiceMiner or Primedice.


Some anomalies that may or may not be significant, but are certainly noteworthy:
  (1C) 0.03 BTC was mysteriously added into my PD balance recently (after the 100 BTC moved). There is no deposit shown that would account for this. Also, there has not been any recent rolling to win that amount in my absence.
  (2C) As I mentioned before, when I tried to place my first bet, the balance showed "100.0012 BTC". When I got the purple "Insufficient Funds" banner at the top, the amount still showed the same. Only after I refreshed, did the new "0 BTC" balance show.
  (3C) I have tested and it is possible to be simultaneously logged into the same PD account from multiple places. INCREDIBLY DISTURBING!
  (4C) Please view my screencapped video proving (1C):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd6itPeYcIY&list=UUe9n6OuOep645hrWmumIlyA
This will only make sense to Stunna, since he is privy to all my bet data.



My conclusions so far
   - Based on (1A) through (5A), the issue is not script or malware related.
   - (3B) and (5B) show possible forethought and deliberate action. So this is most probably not a glitch.
   - (1C) and (4C) demonstrates unauthorized activity still occurring on my account. (I don't know why somebody would deposit though...)
   - (3C) represents a DISASTROUS error in security. If somebody had your login info, they could theoretically withdraw your coins while you are playing! Perhaps this is what happened in (2C).


It is still too early to lay blame since so much is still unknown. Regardless, there are absolutely true, demonstrable problems with the site's security and accounting. One can easily test out the security issue by logging into their PD account from multiple computers or browsers at the same time. Two-factor will probably make this a non-issue soon, but it was possibly an important factor in the BS that has happened to me.

Anyhow, big thanks to Stunna for handling this like such a gentleman. Props to Dooglus and anybody else that has contributed. Sorry for the thesis...

Post
Topic
Board Service Discussion
Topic OP
100 BTC was stolen from my Primedice account. Please see thread.
by
DiceMiner
on 21/09/2014, 18:44:19 UTC
Hello all,
I have been newly active on Primedice during the past few weeks. With the closing of JD, I was looking for another honest, off-chain game to continue rolling. Primedice was great and I had a lot of success there until recently.

Earlier today, I deposited 100 BTC into my account to start playing. (I always make it a habit to put my coins back into my wallet after playing on any site.) Usually my account is credited after 1 confirmation and everything is good-to-go. Well initially, things were looking like they usually do, and my account promptly reflected my new balance. Then I place my first bet and I get an "Insufficient Funds" warning at the top. Mind, you this is happening while my balance shows "100.00120000 BTC." I refreshed the page a few times and afterwards, the balance showed pretty much zero again (0.00120000 BTC worth of dust).

Just to be safe, I even tried logging in and out. Nothing. I hit up the Mod on duty in the chat room and he is unable to help. I have sent an email to support so let's see what they say. I am trying to keep calm, but an annual salary worth of BTC has vanished.

Also, here is the TXID for the deposit in question:
https://blockchain.info/tx/e3baf6d62cbd003632204cd40e82c6e40e55c4a50b2d93e89585ec1ca7fffac1

If any of you more technical guys can get forensic with the blockchain info, ANY help is appreciated. Stunna, if my coins are just stuck somewhere on your site, please return them and I'll be on my merry way. In the meantime:

BE CAREFUL WHEN DEPOSITING YOUR COINS HERE!



This is being discussed and the current theory, based on what we know so far, is that this was the work of a thief on the outside. He probably took advantage of my weak password and then camped out on my account and waited for a large deposit and then quickly withdrew my coins right after confirmation (and before my first bet).

All info is still pending as we await Stunna's post with the complete story.


One thing that is absolutely true is PrimeDice's new security features as a result of this theft. Now there is 2FA which adds and additional layer of security to an already safe site.
Post
Topic
Board Gambling
Re: This is why you shouldn't use martingale
by
DiceMiner
on 23/04/2014, 06:22:08 UTC
I noticed your pattern.  It seems to be pretty simple: switch hi/lo on every loss, leave it the same on a win.  But sometimes you stop alternating on a loss, and I couldn't work out why or when.  Is that just gut feel?


That is more or less it. Very simple. I mean, as random as the results are, they seem to have some patterns within. Using the same method, most sessions felt very similar, no matter the seed. The thing is, it's hard to explain, but sometimes it 'felt' like my method would not work on rare occasions. I don't know how to explain it. As if it was "alive" and had moods. I know, that sounds hokey... Many times, I would walk away mid-session if the results did not feel right.

And I must've misunderstood about the payout results being related to the wins on an account. Also, I have since verified the results of my last session from Hell.   Cry Cry Cry





Post
Topic
Board Gambling
Re: This is why you shouldn't use martingale
by
DiceMiner
on 23/04/2014, 02:00:34 UTC
No worries man.  Smiley
Water under the bridge...

On another note, if there is someone out there that can ELI5 how to verify how my rolls were provably fair, I would be forever in their debt. I know JD is on the level, but I have never even *came close* to losing 11 bets in a row before that unlucky streak.

I would just like to learn more about the math of the whole thing.



Thanks,
DiceMiner


I hope the guy that called me a "degenerate gambler" got to read this part.

Please note that I didn't specifically refer to you as a degenerate - merely my perception that whales seem to be degens.

Good for them - some people have a lot of luck (at least more than me). That's why I love being the house - don't need to rely on luck maths will help you out. Anyways, I'm not so sure, from what I've seen whales seem to be degenerate gamblers who eventually give some/most of it back before quitting.
Post
Topic
Board Gambling
Re: This is why you shouldn't use martingale
by
DiceMiner
on 23/04/2014, 01:30:29 UTC
Thanks for clearing that up Doog.
I am the guy we are talking about here (390060 / 443793 / 444612)
I hope the guy that called me a "degenerate gambler" got to read this part.

Anyways, to prove my legitimacy, here is some info that only Doog would be privy to:

--------------------------------
--- 390060 -------
--------------------------------
bets: 13,593
wins: 6,915
losses: 6,678
luck: 100.81%
wagered: 2,622.21936140
(profit): 279.64896255

--------------------------------
--- 443793 -------
--------------------------------
bets: 2,755
wins: 1,380
losses: 1,375
luck: 100.22%
wagered: 1,408.70396357
(profit): 132.72196976

--------------------------------
--- 444612 -------
--------------------------------
bets: 4,006
wins: 1,986
losses: 2,020
luck: 99.28%
wagered: 1,584.80297668
(profit): 50.38480271


Anyhow, I came here to say, for anyone thinking of trying this, it's not only just a matter of pure Martingale. There's a little pattern that I took a while to feel out. Most sessions, the pattern seems to work and every once in a while, when it just doesn't "feel right", I log off, randomize seed and come back later.

I have seen in the chat rooms that people are selling their accounts. Doog, is there any worth in an account with a win ration like the 3 I have been playing with? I think I remember reading somewhere that it affects one's payout ratio when they invest.


Thanks,
DiceMiner


P.S. For anyone that happened to witness it, I was also the guy that accidentally won a 20x bet while aggressively 'galing a few weeks ago. I forgot that I had it set on 4.95% (instead of 49.5%), but luckily won about 13 BTC on my third or fourth bet. And yes, you better believe I contributed to the Rain-Jar that night!  Tongue


A few facts that haven't been mentioned here:

* That losing sequence went 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2, 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64 - so 11 losing bets in a row.

* That guy had been coming to the site day after day, and winning 10 BTC each day on 3 different accounts.  So 30 BTC per day.

* This is the first time he busted - previously he only got up to 64 twice and won it both times.

* He's still around 460 BTC *up* overall.

So while it's true that in general martingale isn't a winning strategy, in this case it all worked out pretty well for him!