Hello everyone,
I am using Coinbase Pro because I want to start trading. I've watched YouTube videos that explain to me the difference between a Stop order, Limit order, and maker/taker fees. I don't get it? I've read the explanation on Coinbase Pro about the differences and I still don't get it. I must be stupid. I do live in NYC and if anyone would be willing to talk with me on the phone or get together with me to explain how this works and what actions I need to take when both selling and buying, I would be grateful. Thank you.

Yes, this is exactly what is happening to me. Unlike what others have said here I do not think it's because I'm greedy. I've been hodling since February and it's time for me to up my game. If the whales are doing it I should be able to make some kind of decision that will have a positive outcome rather than just hodling and hoping for the best. But yes, I pushed that sell/limit button many times to only cancel the order a few minutes later. I plan on only trading Bitcoin but I want to do it when the whales are moving only. These small day-to-day, week-to-week fluctuations make me nervous and it's just a guessing game.

But seriously, has anyone used Gunbot before? A quick Google search seems to find paid advertisements for this service. I expect the money to be made is in the selling of the software and not what it can actually do for people.

Again, thank you everyone for your comments. Recently someone private messaged me about using "Gunbot". Like I said, I know nothing about trading and Gunbot seems like a good idea on the surface but it's also adding more confusion. Also, I don't have a 4 core computer to run the program. Has anyone used Gunbot and liked it? Also, with every Google search I do on Gunbot every article is positive but I can't find anyone who has had bad experiences with Gunbot though I'm sure they are out there.

O.K., here is another question. I live in NYC. Is there anyone who lives in NYC that would be willing to get together with me and show me how to read the charts and, better still, how in install and configure Gunbot? I would appreciate it.

Thanks. I don't think I got greedy at all because I didn't do anything. I bought at $3600 and I've been sitting on it ever since. I didn't close out because I didn't open anything up. I'm sitting on my Bitcoin and doing nothing when these pumps are happening when I know I should follow these big moves upwards and sell. Like I said, I get too scared and do nothing. I don't think that's greed. It's more like I don't want to lose my Bitcoin but how can I if I'm selling high? So let's say (for example) I bought 3 Bitcoin at $3600. I still have 3 Bitcoin now because I just sit on it. I haven't followed the whales when they pump. Twice now I put in a sell/limit order and then 5 minutes later I cancel because I think I'm doing something wrong.

Wow... I am so surprised with all of your comments. Thank you. I hope I am being clear with my explanation. I am a bartender and the grind of making $200 a day is just getting to me after the last 14 years of my life. Now I have this opportunity to do something with Bitcoin and I'm not doing it because of fear. I did get fairly lucky in that I went all in when Bitcoin was at $3600. But now I'm just hodling. Then came Friday's pump up 35% and I just sat back and watched out of fear instead of being proactive. Then I said, wait a minute, I could've made more than 10 days worth of work in just a matters of hours if I had sold my Bitcoin around the $10,000 mark. You see, I don't want to be the type of trader that tries to guess the market. I just want to have enough courage during those rare times when Bitcoin pumps up quickly to sell high in hopes that it will come down again and make money by rebuying on the low. This extreme pump has only happened twice recently, when Bitcoin pumped up to over $13,000 in September and just Friday pumped again to over $10,000. It's "only" during times like this that I want to take the risk and trade high. I just feel like I'm missing a piece of this puzzle because it seems too easy. Someone tell me that I'm missing something because if were that easy everyone would be doing it.

Hello,

I got into Bitcoin last February. I don't know anything about trading though I often watch Krown's Crypto Cave on YouTube. It's just as confusing to me as it is fascinating. I don't want to be a trader because I know nothing about it but since I bought my first Bitcoin I set up alerts on my phone for sudden increases and decreases and I've noticed patterns.

For instance, on Friday when Bitcoin jumped 36% from $7,400 - $10,300 my alerts on my phone were off the charts. I've seen this before, most notably when Bitcoin jumped up to $13,600 in September. Both times I felt that whales were pumping and dumping and I pushed the button on my phone to sell high but then I started shaking and canceled the sale. Sure enough, a couple of hours later Bitcoin gets dumped and goes back to reasonable levels.

Guys, I know I'm stupid because I'm asking myself, in both instances, why I didn't sell high and wait for Bitcoin to come down and buy again? It seems like a sure thing. All I hear are stories about people losing the shirts off of their backs from trading so that's why I just hodl. Am I missing something here? When I see the whales move the market this quickly should I just grab onto their tales and go for the ride? It seems like a sure thing but I know I'm missing something. Please educate me as to what is wrong with my reasoning.

Thank you.

I just want to thank everyone for all of your input so far. I still haven't decided yet how I want to store my seed phrase. I bought two Ledger Nano X's but my crypto is still on an exchange. I know that, "If it's not your key, it's not your Bitcoin". Still, I feel safe with it so far because the exchange is insured for up to $250,000. I know. I am being stupid by putting trust in an exchange.

I don’t want to poke the bear but I think ZenGo has the potential to be revolutionary. If we all want mass adoption of Bitcoin there will have to be a better way to secure Bitcoin other than seed phrases. If some security expert could take ZenGo through its paces, perhaps examine its code, maybe it will be a way forward. We need everyone and their grandma to own Bitcoin. We need to make this process as easy as possible.

ZenGo claims that all protocols and safety measures have been tested. Their white papers show it but, of course, the actual code is a different story altogether. I am not defending ZenGo. I am drawn to their ease of use and if crypto is to become more widely adopted there has to be a better way of storing and recovering crypto. Is there anyone here who is willing to take ZenGo for a test drive? I have the app on my phone but I am trepidatious. I know nothing about security. In the meantime it looks like I will have to store my coins on a Ledger.

So has anyone read the ZoOm white papers? What do you all think of it? It passed all these security tests.
https://www.zoomlogin.com/#page-blk-white-papers

This just in- Hunter Biden joined Coinbase.

I started a thread about another biometric wallet, ZenGo, and I was informed about this thread here where more people are involved. Here are the posts so far and I'm curious what you computer experts think of this new wallet:

A few weeks ago I heard a podcast with Anthony Pompliano and the founder of ZenGo, which uses ZoOm, a facial recognition security app to secure Bitcoin. I’ve had a couple of discussions with Ouriel Ohayon from ZenGo about the benefits of ZenGo over Ledger. In comparison, Ledger already seems antiquated but has ZenGo been vetted enough to trust that ZenGo is secure? Since ZenGo uses ZoOm I can see how one party would blame the other party if hacking were to occur. I am not a security expert. What do you all think of ZenGo?


There's a discussion about using biometrics to secure your wallet here: Biometric BTC wallet?
The TL;DR is that it is generally a bad idea as it is far more easily broken than a strong password or passphrase.

In terms of the ZenGo itself, I've not heard of it before, but I've had a quick poke around their website. There are a couple of things which give me some concern.

Firstly is that they extensively use cloud servers for back up. Both the client share on your phone, and their server share which they store, are backed up to the cloud. You don't need me to tell you how poor cloud security generally is - you can do a simple web search and see story after story of cloud servers being hacked.

Secondly is their recovery mechanism. If they go out of business, then they have an escrow who will release a master decryption key so all users can still access their private keys and therefore their coins. That's great, but it means there exists a single point of failure for their entire system - the master decryption key. This has been created and transferred to an escrow. We have no idea how many copies of it exist, how many computer systems it has been on, how many people have had access to it, or how good the security currently protecting it is. It's a massive vector of attack, as if someone gains access to it, they can potentially gain access to every coin held by every owner of one of these devices (and as we said above, with all the back ups being stored on the cloud, this is a real concern).

@o_e_l_e_o

Thank you for your input. Wow, I am glad I did not move my coins to ZenGo yet. I am not technologically minded so I need to rely on you experts here. I don't feel comfortable leaving my Bitcoin on Coinbase and using a Ledger with a 24 word seed phrase just seems antiquated, like I said before. Is this really state-of-the-art? Also, like I said before ZenGo uses ZoOm facial recognition. I am not sure that ZoOm is equivalent to the biometrics in your link. Can you check out the white papers on ZoOm and let me know what you think?

https://www.zoomlogin.com/#page-blk-white-papers

@o_e_l_e_o

Thank you for your input. Wow, I am glad I did not move my coins to ZenGo yet. I am not technologically minded so I need to rely on you experts here. I don't feel comfortable leaving my Bitcoin on Coinbase and using a Ledger with a 24 word seed phrase just seems antiquated, like I said before. Is this really state-of-the-art? Also, like I said before ZenGo uses ZoOm facial recognition. I am not sure that ZoOm is equivalent to the biometrics in your link. Can you check out the white papers on ZoOm and let me know what you think?

https://www.zoomlogin.com/#page-blk-white-papers

A few weeks ago I heard a podcast with Anthony Pompliano and the founder of ZenGo, which uses ZoOm, a facial recognition security app to secure Bitcoin. I’ve had a couple of discussions with Ouriel Ohayon from ZenGo about the benefits of ZenGo over Ledger. In comparison, Ledger already seems antiquated but has ZenGo been vetted enough to trust that ZenGo is secure? Since ZenGo uses ZoOm I can see how one party would blame the other party if hacking were to occur. I am not a security expert. What do you all think of ZenGo?

Since I started this thread, I heard a podcast with Anthony Pompliano and the founder of ZenGo, which uses ZoOm, a facial recognition security app to secure Bitcoin. I’ve had a couple of discussions with Ouriel Ohayon from ZenGo about the benefits of ZenGo over Ledger. In comparison, Ledger already seems antiquated but has ZenGo been vetted enough to trust that ZenGo is secure? Since ZenGo uses ZoOm I can see how one party would blame the other party if hacking were to occur. I am not a security expert. What do you all think of ZenGo?

O.K., So I think I have made up my mind as to what I'm going to do. Tell me what you think of my ideas.

1. As stated, I purchased two Ledger Nano X's. I will hide one with my Bitcoin on it somewhere in my apartment. I will keep the second Ledger brand-new, unused in my desk drawer. This way if a thief comes into my apartment they will think that they found the Ledger with the Bitcoin on it. Also, in the future, if the Ledger with the Bitcoin on it wears out for some reason, I will have a back-up.

2. I will use the random BIP39 seed word that the Ledger Nano X generates. (Thank you for saving me here, guys!) I will also use a PIN.

3. Perhaps the most controversial part. I will write my 24 word seed phrase with "archival" permanent invisible ink in a book. I will duplicate this in another book and keep the second book in a safety deposit box or in a P.O. Box at the post office. (I will check from time-to-time the longevity of the ink.)

O.K., So there it is. Is it a sound and effective plan? Thank you.

P.S. I wish I had the "NeuroticFish" username because that's what I've become. A computer I am not.

I am still getting caught up to speed so thank you for your continued help. O.K., I've now accepted and get why I must use the random 24 random word phrase that comes with my Ledger. So we are all good on this front. : )

So I have another idea where I can keep the 24 word seed phrase. Please tell me what you think. Instead of keeping the word phrase on a Billfodl why not write the 24 word phrase with invisible ink in one of my favorite books? I could keep the book in a safety deposit box or at a P.O. Box at the post office. No one would ever suspect that the word phrase is written inside the book. I could have a back up book too if I wanted. My only concern would then be how permanent the invisible ink is. I know in sunlight it disappears after a week but in the dark it will last indefinitely... so they say. Maybe there a different qualities of invisible ink but I haven't found any.

Now where to store the Ledger. I was thinking two things. I could put the Ledger in a magnetic hide-a-key holder and magnetize it to any metal surface in my apartment. I also live in an old apartment. I could bury the Ledger underneath a floor board. I could also hide it in plain site, in a safe in my closet. I really like the following safe because it has an alarm that would go off if someone tampers with it. It also has a time stamp on it showing when it was tampered with. The only thing it doesn't have is it won't send a notification to my phone. This would be cherry if I got a notification on my phone if a thief tried to snag it.

https://www.amazon.com/Verifi-Smart-Safe-Top-Opening-Biometric-Fingerprint/dp/B06XG2F5LN/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=Verifi+Smart+Safe+S4000&qid=1561587964&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1

So which of the ways do you think is the safest way to store the Ledger? Definitely not my underwear drawer... : )

I know some of you are speculating about how many peanuts I actually have. Too funny. Honestly, I am a regular worker and I've worked full-time my whole life with very little vacation time. I've never had health insurance. So this is why it is so important to me. I would like to be able to afford health insurance and take a nice vacation from time to time.

O.K. so I think I'm starting to get it. With BIP39 I can only make my 24 word seed phrase from an existing 2048 word list? For instance, I could not have some of these words be in Spanish, French, or Italian? I did see how complicated it would be for a computer to crack the code with from your example but it seems to me computers are getting smarter every second and they'll eventually will be able to crack BIP39 security. Am I wrong?

I found this information -
Ledger has a position on this: PBKDF2 is an interesting function allowing to derive a low-entropy password into a larger cryptographic key. The lack of entropy is balanced by a CPU intensive derivation function preventing Brute-force.The main problem in BIP39 is that the number of iterations is set to only 2048, which is far lower than the last NIST recommandation (from 2016) which is 10,000. When the mnemonics are well generated and can be kept secret, they represent 256-bits, consequently, the "only" 2048 iterations are not a problem. On wallets where the mnemonics extraction is easy, manufacturers suggest using a passphrase to mitigating the mnemonics extraction threat. In this case, the "only" 2048 iterations become a problem and bruteforce is then possible. If ever, you use a wallet on which mnemonics extraction is possible, my recommandation is to maintain the mnemonics' level of security and using a 256-bit entropy passphrase: 36 random characters passphrase.

Is it possible to get a wallet with a 10,000 wordlist or a 36 word passphrase?

I have another idea for generating a seed phrase. It just bugs me that if someone finds a Billfodl then they will immediately know that it is used to store a seed phrase. Let's go back to my book idea. What if I used the first word at the beginning of each chapter in a random book? If I know which book has my seed phrase it would be safe because no one else would know which book I'm using and it's just one of many in my library. Also, I could even keep the book off premises? Is this a good idea? The problem I see is that the first word in each chapter probably will not be in the BIP39 2048 word list?

Also, I am rethinking the idea of purchasing a safe. If I had a safe in my closet and a burglar broke into my apartment they would automatically know where the Ledger is. Since it is small it may be better to hide the Ledger in a inconspicuous place? It would be much harder for a thief to find. What's better, getting a safe for the Ledger or just hiding the Ledger somewhere?

Also, since my critical information is the seed word, what should I do if someone stole the Ledger? I was thinking since I already bought a back-up Ledger Nano X, it might be better to not back up the second Ledger with the same seed phrase. I could just keep it new in the box and if anyone were to steal my original Ledger with Bitcoin on it I could activate the second Ledger and move my Bitcoin over from the first Ledger to the second Ledger before anyone tries to hack the first Ledger? Is this a good idea?

I know I keep asking questions but you're all so brilliant and I'm very insecure at this point as to how to move forward with this. Everyone is saying I must get my Bitcoin off of Coinbase and I just want to have the most secure method of storing my Bitcoin. Thank you for your continued support.

One more question about this forum? I hope my email is hidden in my profile. I would hate to have a hacker read this thread and have access to my email.

I can’t help but think what would’ve happened if I did not join bitcointalk... 😳  I thought I was being smart about this but I was instead being totally naive. So let me ask you this: If bots are that powerful why can’t they just take every word in Webster’s dictionary and figure out every possible 24 word combo possible? It would seem like an impossible task but just a few years ago the idea of a computer beating the smartest person in Jeapordy was considered impossible... until it happened.

This is scary stuff. Maybe I should just leave my Bitcoin in cold storage in a Coinbase Vault? I hate to trust a third party to protect my Bitcoin but I trust myself even less!

Guys, again, thank you. I’m starting to understand. So let’s say my first word is, “OUT”. There are robots that scan for phrases that start with, “OUT”. Then let’s say my second word is also, “OUT”. The robot will immediately have narrowed down the likely phrases from the first word and intuit my second word which is also, “OUT”. Then I’m done for because the robot will know my seed phrase is from Shakespeare:

“Out, Out, brief candle. Life is but a walking shadow, who struts..., etc.”

Oh geeze. Thank you guys. I’m so grateful to you. 🙏🏻