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wow that very incredible, thank you also for sharing your story, I love hearing things like this, and that's crazy about the computer science professor, I would love to know his name too 
Read from here:
Bitcoin and me (Hal Finney)
Re: $10,000 Bet that Bitcoins will outperform Gold, Silver by 100X !!!
Exactly two years ago, on August 4, 2011, Roger Ver promised to pay $10000 to anyone who would challenge his predictions: that bitcoins will outperform gold, silver by 100X over the next two years .
On August 04, 2011 the price of gold was $1,664.25, silver $41.62 and bitcoin $9.26.
He himself said, that bitcoin should have reached $1000 a coin for him to win the bet. Others explained, that If either silver or gold is up no more than, for example, 1 % and Bitcoins are up 100 % (to ~5.4 BTC/USD), anyone betting against Roger Ver will lose $10,000.
One has to admit that stipulations for the bet were unclear. So long as Roger Ver would find some point within the 2 year span where his predictions hold true - he would have won. Or should the bet's outcome be evaluated exactly on the final day, i.e today?
Let's see the results.
Gold hit an all-time high in September 2011 when it touched $1,921 per troy ounce.
In late April 2011, silver reached an all-time high of $49.76/ozt.
On 10 April, the bitcoin exchange rate reached maximum $266.
Gold's maximum gain during 2 year span was 1921/1664.25=1.154;
silver gained 49.76/41.62=1.196;
bitcoin gained 266/9.26=28.73.
So, bitcoin outperformed gold by factor 28.73/1.154=24.9 and bitcoin outperformed silver by factor 28.73/1.196=24.0. Not by factor 100, as Roger Ver had predicted.
Bitcoin did not reach $1000 as Roger had envisaged himself.
On the other hand ... if we look at today's prices, then we see that prices of gold and silver have decreased compared to prices two years ago. Bitcoin instead has increased in price more than tenfold. In this respect Roger Ver would have won the bet.
Unfortunately nobody challenged him.
On August 04, 2011 the price of gold was $1,664.25, silver $41.62 and bitcoin $9.26.
He himself said, that bitcoin should have reached $1000 a coin for him to win the bet. Others explained, that If either silver or gold is up no more than, for example, 1 % and Bitcoins are up 100 % (to ~5.4 BTC/USD), anyone betting against Roger Ver will lose $10,000.
One has to admit that stipulations for the bet were unclear. So long as Roger Ver would find some point within the 2 year span where his predictions hold true - he would have won. Or should the bet's outcome be evaluated exactly on the final day, i.e today?
Let's see the results.
Gold hit an all-time high in September 2011 when it touched $1,921 per troy ounce.
In late April 2011, silver reached an all-time high of $49.76/ozt.
On 10 April, the bitcoin exchange rate reached maximum $266.
Gold's maximum gain during 2 year span was 1921/1664.25=1.154;
silver gained 49.76/41.62=1.196;
bitcoin gained 266/9.26=28.73.
So, bitcoin outperformed gold by factor 28.73/1.154=24.9 and bitcoin outperformed silver by factor 28.73/1.196=24.0. Not by factor 100, as Roger Ver had predicted.
Bitcoin did not reach $1000 as Roger had envisaged himself.
On the other hand ... if we look at today's prices, then we see that prices of gold and silver have decreased compared to prices two years ago. Bitcoin instead has increased in price more than tenfold. In this respect Roger Ver would have won the bet.
Unfortunately nobody challenged him.
If there were no exchanges as of tomorrow, there would be still 11 mio bitcoins on the loose, every one divisible (almost) indefinitely. Those would be highly-coveted by freedom-lovers all over the world and would be exchanged for real products. At last, all bitcoins will permeate through the supply chain, it would take just little bit more time.
I would refer to http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/ too.
"Bitcoin will take over as the currency of the internet. It will also take over as a store of value; why earn a measly, less-than-inflation interest rate in a savings account when you can have steady appreciation of value if you just keep your money in bitcoin? People will spend less and save more because they know if only they do that, they will be richer in the future. Companies will no longer produce things of no value, because no one will buy them. The world will become more efficient, because there will be less waste. Everyone will realize how much they lose by spending money on valueless things. There will be a more equitable distribution of wealth, because no one can inflate (or, to use a less charitable term, counterfeit) bitcoin at their whim."
- Ryan Dickherber. Bitcoin is the Economic Singularity. 2011-06-04
http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2011/06/bitcoin-is-economic-singularity.html
- Ryan Dickherber. Bitcoin is the Economic Singularity. 2011-06-04
http://themonetaryfuture.blogspot.com/2011/06/bitcoin-is-economic-singularity.html
Re: Decentralised crime fighting using private set intersection protocols
This concept has been discussed at length before and vigorously rejected:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85433.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=85433.0
This not the first time Mike is taking up the same rhyme:
Freezing BitCoin addresses by regulating miners
April 17, 2011
by Mike Hearn
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5979.0
There is some hidden agenda, isn't it?
More on the same topic:
What if bitcoins that can be tracked back to Silk Road are declared 'illegal'?
June 22, 2011
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20979.0
Governments/regulators may eventually actually *like* Bitcoin. - coin blacklists
December 02, 2011
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53539.0;all
EDIT:
My opinion: Bitcoin (as public ledger) is information. 'Tainted'/blacklisted/whitelisted coins are censorship in the purest form. When has censorship served for the good of humankind?
Re: Things are happening behind closed doors, very important for Bitcoin things.
Quote 1:
Quote 2:
Quote 3:
"'While silver can get to $15 or $20 before it's all said and done, the actual launching of the silver ETF could mark a short-term top for silver,' added Peter Grandich, noting that the silver ETF could represent a 'buy the rumor, sell the news' trade." /.../ "Analysts are also warning about potential confusion over the tax structure of precious-metals ETFs. Under current tax law, long-term gains from the sale of silver are taxed as 'collectibles' like artwork. Therefore, if held for more than a year, gains on the silver ETF would be taxed at a maximum rate of 28%, compared with 15% for so-called long-term gains on stocks. If sold in less than a year, gains are taxed as ordinary income.'
- Ben Jones. Metals Dip On Profit Taking, ETF Worries. April 04, 2006.
http://moneyandmetals.blogspot.com/2006/04/metals-dip-on-profit-taking-etf.html
Quote 4:
The gold ETF is being proved to be a sham, not convincingly so, but enough to anyone harboring a suspicious mind. Stories abound within ETF’s regarding shorting gold via futures, buying 10 cents worth of gold per dollar held, lack of transparency, unaccountability under the false guise of security concerns, and avoidance of SEC requirements enough to earn a formal investigation. Eventually, we will learn that on a good day, a fractionally managed gold ETF is right on target with their reality. My uglier view is that ETF’s will morph into non-producing hedge firms, simple queer adjunct skeletal illicitly controlled shams linked to the hedged mining firms themselves, whose certificates are fully mixed, those valid vaulted very real with those leased vanished never to be seen again. For smart people to trust the ETF offerings is evidence of utter complete stupidity in my book. Jim Turk’s original suspicions might have been met with calls of competitive bias, but no more. His concerns have all been borne out as authentic. He is a true gold patriot. For the precious metal community to embrace the upcoming silver ETF is beyond my comprehension.
Such trust reminds me of the Iraq War and calls of weapons of mass destruction. Now Iran is a nuclear threat. Have we learned anything about disinformation? How intelligent is the gold community? Don’t confuse zeal and stubbornness for intelligence and craft. If Fanny Mae launched an ETF for housing investors, would we trust it? A credible argument can be made that the hedged gold institutions (within the establishment of the goomba World Gold Council to manage the gold ETF) is akin to the mafia managing the lending operations for the Teamster’s Union retirement fund. How is that working out? The streetTRACKS gold ETF (GLD) will have a similar fate someday, in managed receivership by some official steward.
- Jim Willie CB. Why USFed Hikes, Unspoken. February 16, 2006
http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/65/3825/2006-02-16.asp?nid=3825&fb=1&wid=65&ntyp=EMA
http://economicrot.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_economicrot_archive.html#114037421219143602
Quote 5:
It's like fractional reserve banking....one bar "owned" by 10 different entities.
Bottom line is if you own precious metal ETF's you own PAPER!
- thinkiam Jul 15 01:14 PM Comment on an article "Warnings to Precious Metal ETF Investors - Buyer Beware!"
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/121744-mark-anthony/13311-warnings-to-precious-metal-etf-investors-buyer-beware
...the accessibility of Bitcoin investments to general public will be ubiquitous.
Quote 2:
hedge funds get their name because they hedge their positions on the market
example go long on oil futures and long on airlines stocks
1 if oil goes up let the oil futures run in profits cut the airlines stock
2 if oil goes down cut the futures and let the airlines stock run in profits how you hedge in bitcoin world?
Originally hedge funds used to hedge, as in your example, but nowadays any strategy goes. Being long in BTC is a possibility. The problem however, is that they normally want to buy financial products within a strict legal framework. The Coinlab deal is a first step towards making this possible, the ultimate goal would be a Bitcoin ETF.example go long on oil futures and long on airlines stocks
1 if oil goes up let the oil futures run in profits cut the airlines stock
2 if oil goes down cut the futures and let the airlines stock run in profits how you hedge in bitcoin world?
Quote 3:
"'While silver can get to $15 or $20 before it's all said and done, the actual launching of the silver ETF could mark a short-term top for silver,' added Peter Grandich, noting that the silver ETF could represent a 'buy the rumor, sell the news' trade." /.../ "Analysts are also warning about potential confusion over the tax structure of precious-metals ETFs. Under current tax law, long-term gains from the sale of silver are taxed as 'collectibles' like artwork. Therefore, if held for more than a year, gains on the silver ETF would be taxed at a maximum rate of 28%, compared with 15% for so-called long-term gains on stocks. If sold in less than a year, gains are taxed as ordinary income.'
- Ben Jones. Metals Dip On Profit Taking, ETF Worries. April 04, 2006.
http://moneyandmetals.blogspot.com/2006/04/metals-dip-on-profit-taking-etf.html
Quote 4:
The gold ETF is being proved to be a sham, not convincingly so, but enough to anyone harboring a suspicious mind. Stories abound within ETF’s regarding shorting gold via futures, buying 10 cents worth of gold per dollar held, lack of transparency, unaccountability under the false guise of security concerns, and avoidance of SEC requirements enough to earn a formal investigation. Eventually, we will learn that on a good day, a fractionally managed gold ETF is right on target with their reality. My uglier view is that ETF’s will morph into non-producing hedge firms, simple queer adjunct skeletal illicitly controlled shams linked to the hedged mining firms themselves, whose certificates are fully mixed, those valid vaulted very real with those leased vanished never to be seen again. For smart people to trust the ETF offerings is evidence of utter complete stupidity in my book. Jim Turk’s original suspicions might have been met with calls of competitive bias, but no more. His concerns have all been borne out as authentic. He is a true gold patriot. For the precious metal community to embrace the upcoming silver ETF is beyond my comprehension.
Such trust reminds me of the Iraq War and calls of weapons of mass destruction. Now Iran is a nuclear threat. Have we learned anything about disinformation? How intelligent is the gold community? Don’t confuse zeal and stubbornness for intelligence and craft. If Fanny Mae launched an ETF for housing investors, would we trust it? A credible argument can be made that the hedged gold institutions (within the establishment of the goomba World Gold Council to manage the gold ETF) is akin to the mafia managing the lending operations for the Teamster’s Union retirement fund. How is that working out? The streetTRACKS gold ETF (GLD) will have a similar fate someday, in managed receivership by some official steward.
- Jim Willie CB. Why USFed Hikes, Unspoken. February 16, 2006
http://www.freemarketnews.com/Analysis/65/3825/2006-02-16.asp?nid=3825&fb=1&wid=65&ntyp=EMA
http://economicrot.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_economicrot_archive.html#114037421219143602
Quote 5:
It's like fractional reserve banking....one bar "owned" by 10 different entities.
Bottom line is if you own precious metal ETF's you own PAPER!
- thinkiam Jul 15 01:14 PM Comment on an article "Warnings to Precious Metal ETF Investors - Buyer Beware!"
http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/121744-mark-anthony/13311-warnings-to-precious-metal-etf-investors-buyer-beware
Re: Bitcoin will do to the banks, what email did to the post office. True or false?
Yawn.
This topic was covered by Falkvinge couple years ago:
With The Napster of Banking Round The Corner, Bring Out Your Popcorn
by Rick Falkvinge
http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/11/with-the-napster-of-banking-round-the-corner-bring-out-your-popcorn
Not everybody was paying attention a couple years ago Jaagu. I certainly wasnt. This topic was covered by Falkvinge couple years ago:
With The Napster of Banking Round The Corner, Bring Out Your Popcorn
by Rick Falkvinge
http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/11/with-the-napster-of-banking-round-the-corner-bring-out-your-popcorn
I clicked on your link, but it didnt work. Is it no longer current? I'd love to check it out if you can provide a current link plz?
Then try another browser.
Re: Bitcoin will do to the banks, what email did to the post office. True or false?
Yawn.
This topic was covered by Falkvinge couple years ago:
With The Napster of Banking Round The Corner, Bring Out Your Popcorn
by Rick Falkvinge
http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/11/with-the-napster-of-banking-round-the-corner-bring-out-your-popcorn
This topic was covered by Falkvinge couple years ago:
With The Napster of Banking Round The Corner, Bring Out Your Popcorn
by Rick Falkvinge
http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/11/with-the-napster-of-banking-round-the-corner-bring-out-your-popcorn
Re: European Union is robbing its citizens' bank accounts. 9.9% to be confiscated.
As a Finnish taxpayer, I think the deal is good:
- It will reduce the need for taxpayer money in the bailout
- It will reduce the confidence in the banks and the corrupt system as a whole
- It will punish the speculators that have both loans and money in the bank (sucker, your arbitrage just shrank by 990 pips how do you feel about that?)
- Which will further reduce the confidence on any tricks that the banks keep pulling from their hats to tie up your money in their value-reduction schemes such as pension plans, mutual funds, etc.
- It will keep the banks afloat for a few more months and give everybody with a brain a chance to invest in bitcoin.
- It will reduce the need for taxpayer money in the bailout
- It will reduce the confidence in the banks and the corrupt system as a whole
- It will punish the speculators that have both loans and money in the bank (sucker, your arbitrage just shrank by 990 pips how do you feel about that?)
- Which will further reduce the confidence on any tricks that the banks keep pulling from their hats to tie up your money in their value-reduction schemes such as pension plans, mutual funds, etc.
- It will keep the banks afloat for a few more months and give everybody with a brain a chance to invest in bitcoin.
As an Estonian taxpayer, I think the deal is morally bad, no matter how good is economic "analysis".
There is no defense for armed robbery.
This is akin to blowing up a disco because it is partially owned by a mob - irrespective of the human cost.
Re: Why bitcoin isn't going to make it: The National Security Agency
@Fool [& @axus]
This is yet another FUD thread.
This is yet another FUD thread.
Agreed.
"I once told [to Eustace Mullins] how much respect I had for George Orwell's daring to write 1984 -- to which he sharply replied: "It's a great piece of pro-government propaganda -- they win in the end." Mr. Mullins is of course right: Orwell's Big Brother is always one step ahead, almost omniscient -- and therefore invincible."
- Beatrice Mott. This Difficult Individual Eustace Mullins — and the Remarkable Ezra Pound.
March 20, 2010
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/authors/Mott-Mullins.html#R
jgarzik launched recently a new client - picocoin.
Should I fear about some backdoor in it?
(Technomage: Hyvä, Suomi! Viro on puolellasi! Olen puhunut puhelimitse Jeremiaksen kanssa. Voin olla varma, et Cryptedmemo on turvallinen kanava. Terveiset hänellekin!)
Should I fear about some backdoor in it?
(Technomage: Hyvä, Suomi! Viro on puolellasi! Olen puhunut puhelimitse Jeremiaksen kanssa. Voin olla varma, et Cryptedmemo on turvallinen kanava. Terveiset hänellekin!)
Re: [NEW] Bitcoinmarket24.com - instant bitcoin purchase - safe and convenient
What's the markup (surcharge)?
The surcharge depend on market conditions and how we're able to get hold of bitcoins ourselves.Herodes, bitcoinmarket24 crew.
OK, give me then the minimum and maximum!
Re: Governments/regulators may eventually actually *like* Bitcoin. - coin blacklists
The city is filled with stories like this. Some are even true.
Sally is paid by her boss in Bitcoins. Her employer automatically takes out taxes from her registered Bitcoin address. After paying her bills to registered business Bitcoin addresses she decides to take her remaining salary and go out. Sally calls an escort service and pays their public address. She then meets Lance for a night of frolic. While she is in the shower the pizza arrives at the motel room. She tells Lance to pay the pizza guy Bill with her card. Her card is designed to only accept registered addresses. Lance is disappointed because he was hoping he could buy drugs from Bill with her card too, but ended up payiing for them with a physical Bitcoin and was unable to get change. Bill pocketed his profit thinking "stupid junkie."
Bill is caught by police buying more drugs to sell. They ask him where he got a whole Bitcoin. Bill tells him that it was a tip from a nice lady. Police check his employer records and find his last delivery. They investigate and find Sally barely alive. They rush her to the hospital. Meanwhile Lance was trying to pawn her jewelry. The first pawn shop wouldn't take his items because Lance refused to give them his registered Bitcoin address. They learned their lesson when an undercover cop pawned jewelry and offered to take half the money if they would use an unregistered address. The next pawn shop would register an address for him if he would wait 10 minutes for the transaction to verify. Lance was desperate for another fix so he agreed to wait. Police picked up the unregistered transaction by the pawn shop IP address and intercepted the perp. The escort was then investigated, but the police chief cleared them of any wrongdoing. Sally later went on Oprah with a book she wrote about how Bitcoin saved her life.
Sally is paid by her boss in Bitcoins. Her employer automatically takes out taxes from her registered Bitcoin address. After paying her bills to registered business Bitcoin addresses she decides to take her remaining salary and go out. Sally calls an escort service and pays their public address. She then meets Lance for a night of frolic. While she is in the shower the pizza arrives at the motel room. She tells Lance to pay the pizza guy Bill with her card. Her card is designed to only accept registered addresses. Lance is disappointed because he was hoping he could buy drugs from Bill with her card too, but ended up payiing for them with a physical Bitcoin and was unable to get change. Bill pocketed his profit thinking "stupid junkie."
Bill is caught by police buying more drugs to sell. They ask him where he got a whole Bitcoin. Bill tells him that it was a tip from a nice lady. Police check his employer records and find his last delivery. They investigate and find Sally barely alive. They rush her to the hospital. Meanwhile Lance was trying to pawn her jewelry. The first pawn shop wouldn't take his items because Lance refused to give them his registered Bitcoin address. They learned their lesson when an undercover cop pawned jewelry and offered to take half the money if they would use an unregistered address. The next pawn shop would register an address for him if he would wait 10 minutes for the transaction to verify. Lance was desperate for another fix so he agreed to wait. Police picked up the unregistered transaction by the pawn shop IP address and intercepted the perp. The escort was then investigated, but the police chief cleared them of any wrongdoing. Sally later went on Oprah with a book she wrote about how Bitcoin saved her life.
Amazing! 
But: this all makes the bold assumption you can absolutely tie an address and specific Bitcoins with an individual or entity.
It won't happen, I can assure you. (Some hints: connecting through Tor; building OpenTransaction overlay upon bitcoin > exchanging blind tokens, etc)
Re: Governments/regulators may eventually actually *like* Bitcoin. - coin blacklists
The original discussion thread about this problem in this forum: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20979.0
Thanks for the pointer - I hadn't seen that one.Nihil novi sub sole. Actually, this thread is more original:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5979.0
Check out what Mike Hearn, theymos and Vladimir have said.
And finally, pay attention to the last post, by Anonymous Guest (I did not know that such 'anonymous' commenting was possible - maybe this guy is Satoshi?
)Re: [CLAIMED!] Bounty: 0.25 BTC. Find the Bitcoins hidden in plain sight.
Who's code is http://bitcointools.appspot.com?
Is it your's, casascius, or Joric's?
Where can I get the source code?
Is it your's, casascius, or Joric's?
Where can I get the source code?
Why exactly only in those countries and not in all Euro-area?
And how is it working?
By my mind SEPA is not instantaneous. Right now it should take three banking days (with promises for the future to diminish it to the one banking day).
And how is it working?
By my mind SEPA is not instantaneous. Right now it should take three banking days (with promises for the future to diminish it to the one banking day).