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Re: [PRE-ANN] Tau-Chain and Agoras Official Thread: Generalized P2P Network
Since after all one has to develop economical part over tau, using tau's unique features, we're going to do it as Agoras. And we do need to distribute the coins somehow, hence the presale.
Can you explain more about this? What can I do, in terms of interfacing with Tau, with Agoras? Is it just another cryptocurrency that is just built using Tau, or does it have some special status or feature within Tau Chain? Why would anyone want to own Agoras over another cryptocurrency within Tau, or outside of Tau for that matter?
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
As for the weighing down, typically centralized economies and the intrinsic political processes weigh themselves down single-handedly.
Bitcoin has hundreds (thousands?) of companies driving innovation and adoption.
How is one company (especially a non Fortune 500 company) going to do it better?
I'm a little puzzled by that.
jonald_fyookball I'm not sure if you're asking me here
I'm a hundred percent sure that the path they chose is a dead-end. There is no way on earth that one company (especially Neucoin where gibberish and marketing comes before everything else) will be doing it better than the free market (hundreds of independent companies as you call it).
Bitcoin has a huge flaw that not too many people talk about, which is the centralization of mining due to economies of scale.
How long before the biggest 3 mining pools decide just to stop accepting blocks outside of their pools? After all, they're leaving 40% of the revenue they could be making if they just did 100% of the mining and force everyone else to go along with it, and this must irk them to no end.
My guess is next year, when the subsidy drops in half, they might decide to do just that and take control of the network. Heck, the people mining in their pool would probably support the idea. More revenue for them.
Even if they don't decide to grab hold of the network, the top miners must be kowtowed to get anything done in Bitcoin. For example, want to increase the blocksize? Make sure to confer with the biggest miners, or they might decide to just ignore you. Doesn't sound too decentralized, does it?
Not only that, but the miners don't share the best interest with the users. Miners want more fees, more subsidy, more stability (ie control). They don't care to make a system that is nearly free to transmit value between others. They'd be happier with something like Visa or Mastercard where they could gouge 3% of every transaction.
Neucoin doesn't have this problem. The miners and the owners of the coin are the same people, anyone with a substantial mining operation would also require a comparably substantial stake. Therefore, attempting to push it towards higher fees or more centralization would destroy their own profit by reducing the value of the coin in general.
LiQio, if you think planned economies never work, explain how Ripple, probably the most planned, centralized coin in existence, has the #2 spot in the market cap right now?
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
[...]
As I said above, this is what keeps Neucoin decentralized.
[...]
As I said above, this is what keeps Neucoin decentralized.
[...]
Never ever use the word decentralized and Neucoin in the same sentence. They are direct opposites.
Excuse me? Care to refute any of my points?
well it's centrally planned, centrally premined, centrally issued and distributed, centrally pooled, centrally developed and advertised, centrally secured, etc.... but maybe that suits some people just fine.
Neucoin is nurturing the coin to maturity, rather than just releasing it and hoping it will survive on its own. This is necessary because of the current crowded environment of alt-coins.
The alt-coin ecosystem right now is like the old saying about a bunch of crabs in a bucket. As soon as one on top tries to escape, the crabs at the bottom pull it back down again.
If Neucoin was just released with no initial services (such as an online wallet and pool), no games fully integrated with it, no exchanges on board to trade it, it would be just like all the others and suffer the same fate.
So, initially centralized, yes, but as the Neucoin economy grows, less and less so.
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
[...]
As I said above, this is what keeps Neucoin decentralized.
[...]
As I said above, this is what keeps Neucoin decentralized.
[...]
Never ever use the word decentralized and Neucoin in the same sentence. They are direct opposites.
Excuse me? Care to refute any of my points?
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
First, lets be clear. Only the first year will users be making 100% interest. After that, it linearly reduces down to 6% after 10 years.
And I can tell you why: Because of the rich founders, the rich angel investors and the rich foundations.
Here is the real reason:
From page 20 of the Neucoin whitepaper:
One severe weakness of Peercoin is that it suffers from extremely low mining participation,
with typically less than 10% of the currency supply staked at any one time. This means that
an attack requiring control of 51% of the staked coins only requires control of 5.1% of the
total currency supply. There are several factors that contribute to the low mining rates in
Peercoin, but the principal one is miniscule rewards for mining: just a 1% annual return. The
small amount of mining that does take place in Peercoin is most likely driven more by selfless
efforts to support the currency than by the financial rewards of mining.
In contrast, NeuCoin provides very high compensation to miners, especially during the
early years following its launch. Specifically, NeuCoins coinstake rewards begin at a 100%
annual rate and decline in a linear fashion over ten years after which they reach a 6% annual
rate, where they remain indefinitely. These high reward rates will incentivize a large number of
miners to stake a large number of coins. In addition, these high reward rates create incentives
for cloud mining operators to provide services to NeuCoin holders not interested in mining
themselves, where both the mining operator and the NeuCoin holder can receive substantial
rewards.
Oh I forgot, everything that the Neucoin says is all lies, right? So you might as well just say "Neucoin is the devil incarnate" and leave it at that.
Second, simple algebra shows that regardless of the reward percentage, as long as users are mining, the Rich maintain the same, "purchasing power" as you called it, vs the poor. Let A be user A, B be user B, and p equal to the percentage earned. Then A*(1+p)/ (B*(1+p)) = A/B.
Wrong! This formula ignores compounded interest! As shown in https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=944933.msg11775144#msg11775144 and as described in the whitepaper: Larger shareholders ""receive payments more frequently".
Let m be the number of Blocks solved by rich user A within a certain time frame and n the number of blocks solved by poor user B within the same timeftame. Then
A*(1+((p/m)/100%)^m) the rich users share increases
while The rich get richer while the poor get poorer.
B*(1+((p/n)/100%)^n) the poor users share decreases
The only way a poor user (or even a rich user who doesn't mint 24/7) can counteract this inequality is to send his coins to a pool. This will make him dependent on a third party which is the direct opposite of decentralized.
Did I ever say a "poor user" shouldn't use a pool? This is how the conversation started! I told you that decentralization comes in when users have around $1000 or so, and at that point the security risk of having someone else hold your coins outweighs the benefits of the additional compound interest. So, the decentralization works when users that have around $1K or so weigh the risks and make the decision to solo-mine.
So, if a "poor user" uses a pool then m=n, and therefore it *still* reduces to A/B.
It looks like this is the case (you need to DEPOSIT nokoins to use the pool),
but isn't that dumb? What other coin requires you to
put your funds into a pool to use that pool?
but isn't that dumb? What other coin requires you to
put your funds into a pool to use that pool?
Yes that's dumb.
As I said above, this is what keeps Neucoin decentralized. Replying with "it's dumb" is not a counterargument.
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
I don't believe Neucoin will have the centralization problems that Bitcoin has.
Neither do I. Its worse already. http://i.imgur.com/jvo1jBw.jpg
As I've said before, in order for Neucoin to follow their strategic plan, they need these coins to distribute to others in compensation for helping to strengthen it. The presale is just a small part of this. If they sold a large amount during the presale, then users would mostly consist of people who just sit on their hands and pray the price goes up (like with most other coins).
Unless I'm mistaken, in a PoS coin, like Neucoin, you have to transfer your balance to the pool in order for it to mine for you.
And that is a problem. Centralized hot wallets are a real gold mine for hackers. Thats why exchanges usually keep most of their customer's coins in cold storage. But this isnt possible for a PoS minting Pool, because PoS coins must always stay online in order to mint. Furthermore, if huge amounts of PoS coins get stolen, it will not only harm the people who got stolen. It will potentially also harm the security of the whole network. Ever heard about the Vericoin/MintPal hack? http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-protected-vericoin-stolen-mintpal-wallet-breach/
Legitimate crypto communities always invoice people to not hold their coins in centralized hot wallets (and exchanges as well of course). But NoKoins hyperinflation even encourages people to permanently do so. NoKoin retards even believe its absolutely necessary for mainstream adoption. Once people lose their coins they might even leave cryto as a whole telling others about all the scams and how risky crypto is . This is rather going to hurt mainstream adoption than to help it.
Yes, that is the drawback. Hopefully it will help with the dismal security practises currently used in the industry. But preventing centralization is an important goal.
For someone with $100, this isn't such a big deal, but someone with $10K would have to worry about the security implications of doing this. So, the little guy trades security for earning a lot of extra compounded interest by joining the pool. However, the whales, and I use that term loosely, holding more than around $1K, would rationally keep their coins under their own control, since they can earn almost the maximum compounded interest by themselves and the risk of losing their coins in someone else's hands isn't worth it.
So, then, the number of holders of $1K or more independently mining will keep centralization from happening.
So, then, the number of holders of $1K or more independently mining will keep centralization from happening.
I disagree. First up, $100 might not be such a big deal for you. But it certainly is a big deal for others.
Yea, well, the world is an imperfect place. There is a trade-off with everything. If they didn't incentivize solo mining, then centralization would be an issue.
Second point is, there is only extra compounded interest for people who receive a higher compunded interest rate than the overall inflation rate. In order to achieve this using solo-minting, you must not only have enough coins. Even more importantly you must mint A LOT. Lets take the number from NoKoin example: 80% of all coins are minting all the time (on the basis of the shareholder structure it will probably even be more in the beginning). This means even someone holding coins worth of $10,000 or $100,000 has to mint around 19 hours every day just to obtain purchasing power. If hes too comfortable doing that, he will probably join the minting pool. Pool or depreciation.
I'm guessing you meant "maintain" rather than "obtain", and "not too comfortable" rather than "too comfortable". Maintaining purchase power (aka. making a profit), depends also on the growth of the economy using the coin, and that won't grow unless people are keeping it secure. Heck, Bitcoiner's currently suffer from around 10% inflation per year, and can do nothing about this (Bitcoins can't be staked) and they don't seem to concerned about it.
And the fact that a miner has to choose between a pool, depreciation, or single-mining, and the system is designed so his rational choice aligns with keeping the market decentralized and secure is actually a really good design decision.
A legitimate PoS coin would never utilize a 100% reward per year. PoS generally suffers from the rich get richer bias: https://twitter.com/gavinandresen/status/421635550911934465
Peercoiners call it a myth which I believe is credible since the reward is only 1% per year, also because of the minimum coin age (one transaction can mint 12 times a year at the most) and due to predictability. Compounded interest rate differences in Peercoin are almost nothing. Blackcoin has a much lower minimum coin age and no predictability in the fairly long term (such as NoKoin) but only a 2% anually reward, still somewhat negligible.
NoKoin 100% reward is deeply unfair and was probably just chosen to get angle investors on board of this scam train.
Second, simple algebra shows that regardless of the reward percentage, as long as users are mining, the Rich maintain the same, "purchasing power" as you called it, vs the poor. Let A be user A, B be user B, and p equal to the percentage earned. Then A*(1+p)/ (B*(1+p)) = A/B.
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
confusion abounds.
lorrav, you're confused/misinformed on almost every point here.
Pool participants never send their funds to pools and Bitcoin pools are less centralized than they were a year ago.
Coinage as used by peercoin is a broken idea because if you're trying to attack the network by broadcasting your own chain and your chain isn't accepted, the next time you try, you'll have even more chances to succeed because now your coins got older. Plus it makes long range attacks easier. As far as I know, neucoin isn't going to go that route.
lorrav, you're confused/misinformed on almost every point here.
Pool participants never send their funds to pools and Bitcoin pools are less centralized than they were a year ago.
Coinage as used by peercoin is a broken idea because if you're trying to attack the network by broadcasting your own chain and your chain isn't accepted, the next time you try, you'll have even more chances to succeed because now your coins got older. Plus it makes long range attacks easier. As far as I know, neucoin isn't going to go that route.
In Neucoin, you'd have to send your coins to the pool. How else are they going to mine with them? I know that in Bitcoin it doesn't work that way.
You didn't really refute any of my points, here.
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
The WP says,
"in abandoning time-weight, NeuCoin chose the benefit of higher security at a cost
of creating small advantages for large miners over smaller miners,"
How does this compounding effect play out, over say 5yrs
"in abandoning time-weight, NeuCoin chose the benefit of higher security at a cost
of creating small advantages for large miners over smaller miners,"
How does this compounding effect play out, over say 5yrs
Compound interest is the rich NoKoiner's best friend, and the poor NoKoiner's worst enemy. But you don't have to take my word for it:
"Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it, earns it he who doesnt pays it." [Albert Einstein]
As the whale gets proportionally richer than the minnow, does that in itself make it even harder for said minnow to stake?
Yes.
The $100 guy can always join a mining pool, which would even out his percentage a lot
... which will result in some of the same issues that Bitcoin PoW mining has:
Quote from: NoKoin Strategic Plan
A second, widely recognized drawback of PoW mining is its tendency to become centralized. In Bitcoins early years, when Bitcoins had little value, mining was highly decentralized among tens of thousands of individuals using consumer-grade computers - and this true peer-to-peer nature was considered one of Bitcoins core benefits. Today, this is changing.
First came mining pools, in which large numbers of miners combine resources and share mining awards in order to receive frequent, predictable payments rather than waiting and hoping for a single large award. The largest pools have already breached the point of having a majority of the networks computing power, where they would have the capability of seriously harming the network. Second, hobbyist and small-scale miners have been getting knocked out of business, pool or no pool.
...
Centralization of PoW mining is problematic for several reasons. First, centralization of mining power represents a severe security risk. Any entity (or entities working together) that controls 51% or more of the networks computing power can seriously harm the network. Second, when there are only a few, highly-capitalized entities that control the network, the entire network becomes susceptible to government control and regulation of these few entities.
First came mining pools, in which large numbers of miners combine resources and share mining awards in order to receive frequent, predictable payments rather than waiting and hoping for a single large award. The largest pools have already breached the point of having a majority of the networks computing power, where they would have the capability of seriously harming the network. Second, hobbyist and small-scale miners have been getting knocked out of business, pool or no pool.
...
Centralization of PoW mining is problematic for several reasons. First, centralization of mining power represents a severe security risk. Any entity (or entities working together) that controls 51% or more of the networks computing power can seriously harm the network. Second, when there are only a few, highly-capitalized entities that control the network, the entire network becomes susceptible to government control and regulation of these few entities.
NoKoin is the combination of PoW disadvantages and PoS disadvantages.
I don't believe Neucoin will have the centralization problems that Bitcoin has. Unless I'm mistaken, in a PoS coin, like Neucoin, you have to transfer your balance to the pool in order for it to mine for you. For someone with $100, this isn't such a big deal, but someone with $10K would have to worry about the security implications of doing this. It would be akin to leaving your balance "on the exchange", which many people have been burned by.
So, the little guy trades security for earning a lot of extra compounded interest by joining the pool. However, the whales, and I use that term loosely, holding more than around $1K, would rationally keep their coins under their own control, since they can earn almost the maximum compounded interest by themselves and the risk of losing their coins in someone else's hands isn't worth it.
So, then, the number of holders of $1K or more independently mining will keep centralization from happening.
Compare this against the huge centralization flaw that bitcoin has right now, where only 3 miners are necessary to collude to run a 51% attack! (From here you can see that it would only take 3 of the biggest miners to collude to reach 51%: https://blockchain.info/pools). Due to economies of scale, this can and will eventually occur with any PoW coin that currently exists, and is the reason the future of PoW is not too bright right now.
---
BTW, what is the problem with coinage the way Neucoin implements it? I have no idea why it is, according to jonald, "broken".
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
scam confirmed
we/ I need a figure for a "whale" please,
we/ I need a figure for a "whale" please,
Initial capital Final capital (after 1 year) Effective annual interest rate
100 $ 196.86 109.36 %
1,000 $ 2321.41 144.65 %
10,000 $ 23723.42 149.74 %
100,000 $ 237766.63 150.28 %
1,000,000 $ 2378201.11 150.33 %
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
Stake modifier, omission of coin age in combination with NoKoin's initial 100% p.a. reward is an insolent rich-get-richer-poor-get-poorer-scheme!
Small NoKoin holders do not mint 24/7. Coin age doesn't linearly accumulate over time. --> Rich NoKoiners receive much more because they stake more often + due to compounded interest.
Rich foundations, rich founders, rich angel investors --> probably a feature.
Small NoKoin holders do not mint 24/7. Coin age doesn't linearly accumulate over time. --> Rich NoKoiners receive much more because they stake more often + due to compounded interest.
Rich foundations, rich founders, rich angel investors --> probably a feature.
Compound interest is necessary in order to prevent miners from staying offline most of the time:
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/technical-questions-and-clarifications/531/51
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
Actually, I don't own any altcoins.
I became interested in what I perceived to be a scam (Neucoin)
after reading the claims that Neucoin can solve the Proof
of Stake issues.
I've read quite a bit on these kinds of issues and have
discussed them with very smart and knowledgable
people (like Greg Maxwell).
And I believe I know enough to tell you that the
Neucoin whitepaper is a paper tiger.
And yet, you can't produce any coherent attack against it. Why don't you? I'm sure at least Sunny King from Peercoin would be interested in what you have to say.
been there, done that -- see above link.
As far as I know, Peercoin still uses checkpointing to guard against grinding attacks.
If there was something innovative in the neucoin paper, I'm sure Sunny King and
the peercoin community would be talking about it and trying to integrate it.
You gave me a link of about 100 posts. Which, if any, can I pin you down on as saying this is the attack that will prevent Neucoin from working?
You argue like a politician.
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
What link?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1007155.0
BTW, Sunny King is trying to integrate it:
Integrate what?
Indeed. Integrate what? What innovation are you speaking about?
Still waiting for Lorrav, or anyone for that matter, to explain what innovations they
think Sunny King is trying to integrate. Actually, if you can point to any innovations
at all in the whitepaper, please let me know. I haven't seen a single one.
scam_confirm conveniently chopped off part of my message:
What link?
BTW, Sunny King is trying to integrate it:
https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=4035.msg38825#msg38825
BTW, Sunny King is trying to integrate it:
https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=4035.msg38825#msg38825
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
Actually, I don't own any altcoins.
I became interested in what I perceived to be a scam (Neucoin)
after reading the claims that Neucoin can solve the Proof
of Stake issues.
I've read quite a bit on these kinds of issues and have
discussed them with very smart and knowledgable
people (like Greg Maxwell).
And I believe I know enough to tell you that the
Neucoin whitepaper is a paper tiger.
And yet, you can't produce any coherent attack against it. Why don't you? I'm sure at least Sunny King from Peercoin would be interested in what you have to say.
been there, done that -- see above link.
As far as I know, Peercoin still uses checkpointing to guard against grinding attacks.
If there was something innovative in the neucoin paper, I'm sure Sunny King and
the peercoin community would be talking about it and trying to integrate it.
What link?
BTW, Sunny King is trying to integrate it:
https://www.peercointalk.org/index.php?topic=4035.msg38825#msg38825
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
Actually, I don't own any altcoins.
I became interested in what I perceived to be a scam (Neucoin)
after reading the claims that Neucoin can solve the Proof
of Stake issues.
I've read quite a bit on these kinds of issues and have
discussed them with very smart and knowledgable
people (like Greg Maxwell).
And I believe I know enough to tell you that the
Neucoin whitepaper is a paper tiger.
And yet, you can't produce any coherent attack against it. Why don't you? I'm sure at least Sunny King from Peercoin would be interested in what you have to say.
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
LOrreV - "The reason most of the coins being held by the foundations is to get the coin in the hands of many different types of people."
OK maybe, in theory. But its clearly open to abuse.
We have been told very little about the foundations structure. (A subject you could ask about nokoin forum about?)
We know at launch the nokoin "team" will be paid 200m nokoin for work done. Value at presale $2m or 8000btc (declared as $1m)
We know the nokoin "team" have another 300m nokoin reserved for work done after launch. Value at presale $3m or 12000btc (declared as $2.25m)
We know that foundations will be under nokoin "team" control for years to come.
We know a large block of nokoin will be awarded to companies that help nokoin grow.
Starting with radioairplay owned by Dank aufman. Award value $? (undeclared)
and jango.com, founded by Dank aufman. Award value $? (undeclared)
Possibly many more "DanK" companies?
Possibly many more "team" companies?
Combine the obvious opportunity for fiscal abuse with an old boy network of scammers and thieves. I will be dumping my survey coins.
(Seriously, why not ask for some details on nokoin forum? Sandrine is hoping to launch in July. Also disproportionate staking rewards for larger holders, some figures please. Also some of Dartious Questions/concerns could be answered, unless it's just blind faith for you)
OK maybe, in theory. But its clearly open to abuse.
We have been told very little about the foundations structure. (A subject you could ask about nokoin forum about?)
We know at launch the nokoin "team" will be paid 200m nokoin for work done. Value at presale $2m or 8000btc (declared as $1m)
We know the nokoin "team" have another 300m nokoin reserved for work done after launch. Value at presale $3m or 12000btc (declared as $2.25m)
We know that foundations will be under nokoin "team" control for years to come.
We know a large block of nokoin will be awarded to companies that help nokoin grow.
Starting with radioairplay owned by Dank aufman. Award value $? (undeclared)
and jango.com, founded by Dank aufman. Award value $? (undeclared)
Possibly many more "DanK" companies?
Possibly many more "team" companies?
Combine the obvious opportunity for fiscal abuse with an old boy network of scammers and thieves. I will be dumping my survey coins.
(Seriously, why not ask for some details on nokoin forum? Sandrine is hoping to launch in July. Also disproportionate staking rewards for larger holders, some figures please. Also some of Dartious Questions/concerns could be answered, unless it's just blind faith for you)
This is the reality of being an early investor in any normal company (not a crypto coin), the founders could just decide to run away with the cash. But you have to trade one risk for another. You can trust the team to do what they say they will, or alternatively, if you invest in another coin, trust that it can grow virally in a way that beats out all other alt-coins on the market all by itself.
You can try to paint the team having all these business connections as a bad thing, but to me, having radioairplay, and jango.com as clients right off the bat, contributes to the chances of success, rather than subtracts from it.
I think you're seeing all these risks as larger than they are, because they are not normally associated with a cryptocoin, but these risks *are* associated with any startup company. I also think you're not seeing how large the usual risks are with a newly minted cryptocoin, and how the Neucoin team is attempting to mitigate them with a highly diversified and experienced team of individuals backing it. Simply, a cryptocoin can't succeed on it's technical merits alone. In other words, an idea ahead of its time is just that. Unless you can convince the masses, if you build it, they *won't* come.
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
Scam here or not? Still need to figure this out. any ideas?
this is not scam bro .. Neucoin have future . you can Buy some on market when launching . and Hold , if you want use neucoin , you can do , marketplace cooming soon , maybe very soon
You're not going to be holding much with that 100% inflation every year.
Ever noticed why there doesn't seem to be many PoS high inflation coins on CMC? Because they all get dumped because the holders don't tolerate being stolen from. If a coin is stagnant then you lose half your holding after 1 year and in crypto we've seen coins go stagnant for years.
BTW, to keep the facts straight, the interest rate goes down from 100% down to 6% over the course of 10 years.
It doesn't matter. Price will be dictated by the NoKoin team (er, I mean foundations) for years.
The reason most of the coins being held by the foundations is to get the coin in the hands of many different types of people.
With most alt-coins so far, the only people that end up owning it are pretty much the founders and the speculators that bought early hoping for a raise in price, and then looking to sell to other speculators, and so on... basically the Greater Fool theory. For these other alt-coins, there is no real reason anyone would own them outside of this sphere of cryptocurrency speculation. This makes the value of the network very small.
The Neucoin team is taking a different approach, which is why they only sold 3.3% of their coins in the presale. They want a heterogeneous network full of different types of people using it. Of course, if the Neucoin team kept all their coins to themselves, with 96.7% of the coins held by them and only 3.3% by speculators, the coin would be worthless. I'm sure even the Neucoin team realizes this. But suppose Neucoin had instead gone with what seems to be the popular opinion on this message board, and placed all 100% in the hands of cryptocurrency speculators. It would be my contention, that in such a case, the coin would be just as worthless as all the other hundreds of failed altcoins out there, and would suffer a similar fate.
So why in both of these cases, a large percentage in the hands of speculators, and a small percentage held by the founders, or a large percentage held by the founders, and a small percentage held by the speculators, does the coin not have any value? It's the property of the network of people that hold the coin.
A homogeneous network full of speculators is almost as worthless as a network owned by the Neucoin company itself. In a homogeneous network, there is no one that anyone has that is worth trading for to anyone else. On the other hand, a network of coins held by many different people from many different industries *is* valuable. In other words, the value of a network multiplies in total by each new industry it breaks into.
After launch, the Neucoin foundations will be putting Neucoin in the hands of many different actors in all kinds of different industries. In addition, it's designed to be extremely easy to use and acquire... there will be a fully integrated online wallet at launch, a cloud based mining service, and many promotions to earn coins.
This, IMO, is how a real valuable network is born, one where many different kinds of people from many different industries get involved. This kind of network gives many people a reason to buy and use your coin, outside of small sphere of speculators that is greatly personified by the people haunting this message board
.Disclaimer, I don't speak for the Neucoin team and am only an investor. But, you can read more of their official statements on the matter here:
http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#strategic-distribution
http://www.neucoin.org/en/wiki/#pre-launch
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
Scam here or not? Still need to figure this out. any ideas?
this is not scam bro .. Neucoin have future . you can Buy some on market when launching . and Hold , if you want use neucoin , you can do , marketplace cooming soon , maybe very soon
You're not going to be holding much with that 100% inflation every year.
Ever noticed why there doesn't seem to be many PoS high inflation coins on CMC? Because they all get dumped because the holders don't tolerate being stolen from. If a coin is stagnant then you lose half your holding after 1 year and in crypto we've seen coins go stagnant for years.
BTW, to keep the facts straight, the interest rate goes down from 100% down to 6% over the course of 10 years.
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
I read your post and felt great, most of the Alt coins are not clear cuts and always very complicated even after their launch and in case of NEUCOIN team, I think they have done a great Job to lets people know what exactly NEUCOIN is, and I just love their way of marketing and transparency, I think all those talking against NEUCOIN doing Scam has been already scam by one or the other coins - so was I. I did not lose hope and I know Digital currencies are here to stay as long as the internet lives .. only few will last as long as Internet and my bet is on NEUCOIN as one of them.
Yes, very funny.
What exactly is nokoin?
The marketing I have seen and highlighted is BS. They are now too "busy" to communicate.
Where is the transparency? No details on large stake Minting advantages, foundations ect.
They "claim" to have worked on nokoin for over a year. Would think we could have some details by now?
You loved pandacoin(PND), another "cryptocurrency for the masses", another pump and dump.
They aren't too "busy" to communicate. They just released an update and have committed to releasing one every two weeks:
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/pre-launch-updates/1268
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
Pre-launch updates
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/pre-launch-updates/1268
This one is horrible:
Features include:
(I assume they mean minting/staking)
Remember: PoS coins always have to be online in order to mint. That's a huge differentiator from Circle and Coinbase which store most of their customer's Bitcoins in their cold wallet for security reasons. As long as there is no "cold-minting" implemented, the wallet even has to be open in order to mint.
Didn't NoKoiners learn anything from all the hacks in the past? MyNeuCoin.com will sooner or later get hacked. Mark my words: I told you so.
No, a centralized hot wallet for staking is not at all "absolutely necessary for mainstream adoption". Far from it! Education is necessary: Never hold significant amounts of your coins in a centralized fucking hot wallet!
http://forum.neucoin.org/t/pre-launch-updates/1268
This one is horrible:
Quote
MyNeuCoin.com
Reminder: MyNeuCoin is an online wallet where you can store, send and receive your NeuCoins. A lot of effort has been put into making sure that its as consumer-friendly and easy-to-use as the leading Bitcoin wallets Circle and Coinbase. This is a major project and we believe it will be a huge differentiator from other altcoins, and absolutely necessary for mainstream adoption.
Reminder: MyNeuCoin is an online wallet where you can store, send and receive your NeuCoins. A lot of effort has been put into making sure that its as consumer-friendly and easy-to-use as the leading Bitcoin wallets Circle and Coinbase. This is a major project and we believe it will be a huge differentiator from other altcoins, and absolutely necessary for mainstream adoption.
Features include:
Quote
- A consumer facing Proof-of-stake cloud mining service called growth accounts, where users can leave a deposit for a fixed term and seamlessly earn proof-of-stake mining rewards (without even needing know what mining or even cryptocurrencies mean).
(I assume they mean minting/staking)
Remember: PoS coins always have to be online in order to mint. That's a huge differentiator from Circle and Coinbase which store most of their customer's Bitcoins in their cold wallet for security reasons. As long as there is no "cold-minting" implemented, the wallet even has to be open in order to mint.
Didn't NoKoiners learn anything from all the hacks in the past? MyNeuCoin.com will sooner or later get hacked. Mark my words: I told you so.
No, a centralized hot wallet for staking is not at all "absolutely necessary for mainstream adoption". Far from it! Education is necessary: Never hold significant amounts of your coins in a centralized fucking hot wallet!
From http://forum.neucoin.org/t/pre-launch-updates/1268:
MyNeuCoin is a Blockchain.info type of wallet with regards to the management of private keys. They are never accessible by the online wallet, only by the wallet users (as opposed to Coinbase for example), which is very important from a security, anonymity and regulatory perspective.
Re: [ANN] NeuCoin - Easy to use, free to try, focused on micropayments - Official
coin getting pushed back probably due to a very meager development budget. they want to spend as little as possible on actually coding something that they can sell.
No, as far as I know the release has always been the same, July to September. BTW, you can always tell the fools, because they are always the most confident in their predictions and never bother looking at the other side of the fence. Although, I'd say Gekko's prediction smacks of paranoid delusion.