It's not SUPPOSED to have value, that is true, but it's still a functioning PoW chain which means you need electricity, hardware and money to mine. If it had NO value then faucets would give away 100 coins for free, but they don't because it costs money to mine, and it's not easy to obtain large amounts when you need a modern ASIC to mine testnet.

I ran a BTC faucet from 2014-15, giving away free bitcoin in exchange for ad revenue. That didn't mean bitcoin had no value and that's the same trade testnet faucets are making today.

The low payout of faucets is a problem. Saying you don't need larger amounts for testing is a myth repeated by many. Bitcointalk runs on PHP and MySQL and a large portion of the web still does. MySQL's max integer limit is 2,147,483,647, and it's best practice to store bitcoin amounts in satoshis, not floats. Therefore you need at least 21.48 tBTC to test your database and all aspects of your site and/or connected apps can handle integers larger than 32 bits.  Is a deposit larger than 21.47 BTC likely? Probably not on most sites, but it's not impossible, and that's the last order you want to screw up when you switch your site to mainnet because you didn't test your site properly.

Devs aren't the only ones needing larger amounts, so do bitcoin companies. When exchanges and bitcoin companies do technical tests for their new hires, they use tBTC and they don't use 0.0012 faucet amounts, they use full coins. I can speak from personal experience.  

Instead of shaming people with false narratives some devs like Jameson Lopp understand the need for larger amounts and will gift larger sums to other devs, but he doesn't have an endless amount to give away. Not everyone is generous as Jameson and larger sums are now being loaned and/or sold by others so users can get the amount they want/need.

Mining on testnet is already a losers game. The reward is too low, and you need an ASIC if you don't want to wait for the 20 minute difficulty reset to 1. And even then if you get lucky you only are rewarded 0.012tBTC plus fees.

You'll spend more than 4 days with an S19 to mine a single tBTC not to mention the energy cost at 3,250 watts.  It's MUCH cheaper to buy testnet coins. Testnet coins would have to be worth around $30/40 per coin to make mining on testnet worth the energy and hardware costs.

Here's a bitcoin testnet mining calculator: https://buytestnet.com/bitcoin-testnet-mining-calculator.php

The most underrated altcoin... Testnet3 (tBTC)!

We all know testnet coins have no value  yet mining a single testnet coin today would cost over $40 USD if you rent hashpower. Even if you have your own S19 rig the mining reward is so small it would take at least 4 days to mine a single tBTC.

I found a testnet3 mining calculator which appears to be the only one that exists specific to Testnet3 (tBTC).

https://buytestnet.com/bitcoin-testnet-mining-calculator.php

The market is so lopsided right now, you can buy them for a tiny fraction of the mining cost largely due to the narrative that testnet bitcoin has no value. The main reason seems to be the fear of a reset, yet a reset hasn't occurred in over 10 years.

Once the current supply is eaten up and market catches up to match mining cost the returns would be better than a memecoin!

Post any other testnet mining calculators you can find in this thread!

I also used https://buytestnet.com and it worked well for me!  I like that it is pro-privacy and no registration needed.

There's a mining calculator on the site which basically suggests the price of tBTC would have to get over $20 tBTC for mining to be profitable!

Makes sense why so many people are buying instead of mining.

At current prices tBTC also presents a good risk/return at 10-20X from current levels.

They're not supposed to have value, but the cost to mine testnet is real. It's not just one or two people; many people are buying testnet coins and that confirms the demand is real because they are not easy to obtain. People can place whatever value they want on anything, and clearly people are placing value on tBTC.



The last reset was 10 years ago... I'll believe it when I see it.

*visits link and I see* an altcoin exchange with ads 

Why would an exchange even need ads, don't they earn trading fees?
An exchange with ads is strange and a big red flag to me, means no privacy for their users and probably not very secure IMO.

Faucets have dried up, the reward is only 0.012 to mine 1 block and you need an asic to mine and know-how. It costs real money to mine a tesnet coin.
You need specialized software and hardware to mine, or you have to rent hashpower... Seems only natural that markets are popping up and people are buying/selling. A simple web search for buy bitcoin testnet coins or something like that reveals places that are selling testnet coins, and they are very cheap, probably just meant for devs who need them and to dissuade free loaders from hoarding like they do on faucets. Testnet hasn't been reset in ages, not sure if it ever will be at this point, but people are going to speculate on anything especially when in demand and limited in amount. I say just spend the few bucks for tesetnet if you need it, at least you aren't buying altcoins!

The difficulty number used is an average from mempool.space which accounts for the difficulty resets.




LOL that's so cheap, I may even buy some myself.  There's no incentive to mine even with a USB miner at difficulty 1, when you can buy a whole coin at such a low rate. The going rate doesn't align with the mining cost and time to solve over 80 blocks with a 0.012 reward.

If the basic formula is:
And the current difficulty on testnet is: 53696268

Assuming it costs approximately $12 to rent 100 TH/s of SHA256 for a day we can use the calculator code by Phelix (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5826.0) to arrive at 0.444 tBTC per day with 100 TH/s of rented SHA256 hashpower.


Unless I'm making a mistake somewhere this means it would take more than 2 days to mine a single testnet bitcoin, and put the mining cost for one tBTC close to $30 USD...

Is this the reason most testnet faucets have disappeared and some people are asking to buy testnet coins?

Thank you for your interest.

Sorry I have never used discord and not sure if I have the capacity at the moment to join another platform as 100% of my free time is getting this ready for launch.

I've enabled Discussions on the main GitHub that way I'll see it when I'm using github. https://github.com/spinn-DR/Spinn/discussions

There hasn't been a lot of activity related to airdrop claims which is concerning as there may not be enough liquidity at launch. I suppose if there's very little interest in airdrop there will probably be few transactions at launch too so perhaps it will work out fine. We'll see what happens, could be a flop I don't know -- at least there's no pre-sale or other capital risks.

22 days until snapshot.

Received an inquiry via PM on Graphic Design, consider the position filled.

We still need:
- Community Manager. Mainly twitter to spread the word. Reply in this thread and/or DM if interested.
- Pre-Launch Testers. Looking for experienced node operators to help test. Reply in this thread and/or DM.

And most of all we need liquidity providers so the network can operate effectively as a private auto-mixing POW blockchain. So how do you be a liquidity provider? You need SPINN which can be claimed for free if you own non-custodial BTC.

Visit our Spinn-Airdrop repository (https://github.com/spinn-DR/spinn-airdrop) for more details on how to claim the airdrop.

Airdrop redeem rate for early adopters is 10,000 to 1, eventually it will drop to 250 to 1. That is if you sign a message with a balance of 1 BTC at the current airdrop redeem rate you will receive 10,000 SPINN.

28 days until UTXO snapshot. Any feedback, thoughts?

On-and-off for the past two years or so I have been working on a new bitcoin fork that focuses on privacy and node incentives.

Today I'm excited to finally announce it. Although the full code release will come later.

Introducing, Spinn.

Spinn is an open-source fork of pre-taproot bitcoin core that focuses on three (3) main aspects:

(1) Privacy: Through the use of mixers built-in with each node allowing privacy that is also resistant to inflation bugs (sorry Monero).

(2) Decentralization: Proof of Work SHA256

(3) Node Incentives: Aside from typical mining incentives, node runners also have an incentive to spin (mix), and every user the incentive to remain anonymous without having to enroll in any mixing service as it's automatically included in the protocol.

It's really only two (2) new aspects, but Proof-of-Work needs to be re-stated as a focus due to recent attacks against POW as it is the only way to truly maintain decentralization.

Pre-mine Disclosure

I get it pre-mines can look bad, but it's 100% necessary for the network to operate and 90% of the pre-mine will be airdropped to users.

There will be 1 million pre-mined coins prior to launch. 10% will be held as a developer fund; the other 90% will be available for the Airdrop.

Visit our Spinn-Airdrop repository (https://github.com/spinn-DR/spinn-airdrop) for more details on how to claim the airdrop.

A pre-mine is necessary in order for the built-in spinning to work properly. If the network launched and there were no users with balance for mixing liquidity, users would be unable to spend. This is why it is paramount for users to already have coins prior to launch in order to provide liquidity needed for spinning.

How to be a Spinning/Mixing Provider?

Anyone running a Spinn node, (including pruned nodes) can opt-in to mix transactions and collect fees. This provides an incentive to node operators and helps support mixing liquidity in a decentralized manner.

Depending when you claim the airdrop you may be eligible for redeeming at a higher rate. This will allow early adopters who don't have deep pockets to gain access to the necessary liquidity to participate in mixing.

How the Airdrop Works

The Spinn airdrop is eligible to anyone who owns non-custodial bitcoin ($BTC) as of the snapshot date, and makes a claim by posting a signed message to our airdrop claim thread prior to mainnet launch (05 December 2022). SINCE BITCOINTALK DOES NOT ALLOW ALTCOIN ANNOUNCEMENTS THAT REQUIRE USERS TO REPLY TO THE THREAD WE SET UP OUR OWN THREAD OFFSITE.

The first 100 valid claims to be posted and identified will redeem at a rate of 10,000/1 their BTC holdings at the time of the snapshot. (ie if you sign a message from a BTC address with a balance of 0.001 BTC you will receive an airdrop of 10 Spinn)

The next 150 valid claims (101 - 250) to be identified will redeem at a rate of 1,000/1 their BTC holdings at the time of the snapshot. (ie if you sign a message from a BTC address with a balance of 0.001 BTC you will receive an airdrop of 1 Spinn)

Everyone else will redeem at a rate of 200/1 their BTC holdings at the time of the snapshot. (ie if you sign a message from a BTC address with a balance of 0.001 BTC you will receive an airdrop of 0.2 Spinn)

WE WILL NOT ACCEPT SIGNED MESSAGES VIA PRIVATE MESSAGE, DM OR OTHER METHOD. We believe there needs to be complete transparency in conjunction with the distribution.

Visit our Spinn-Airdrop repository (https://github.com/spinn-DR/spinn-airdrop) for more details on how to claim the airdrop.

Replay Protection
To prevent transaction replay attacks Spinn addresses will use a base58 encoding with a leading hexadecimal byte of '7c'. Spinn addresses will start with a "s" or "r".

Roadmap
- GitHub release (coming soon!)
- Bitcoin UTXO Snapshot 05 October 2022
- Launch 05 December 2022!

Experimental Risks
If there is an insufficient amount of node operators and liquidity at launch, users attempting to spend may be unable to spend as the network is unable find a spin partner to broadcast their transaction for them. To mitigate this risk we have introduced an airdop so that they can enable spinning that is built-in with the node that can be operated without any mining hardware and earn rewards. This incentivizes users to run a node so they can earn funds just by running a node and by keeping a balance on their node wallet. The incentive should keep users running nodes, and thereby keeping the chain alive.

If a large percentage of users left and liquidity were to completely evaporate the chain can still be revived if sufficient liquidity returns. If the amount of spinners ever goes to zero, it incentivizes someone to reactivate the chain on their own by adding liquidity as they would be the only spinner and thereby collecting 100% of fees of pending transactions.

Although local tests are functional and operating it's impossible to say what people will actually do in practice. It should go without saying this will be an experiment.

Main Github: https://github.com/spinn-DR/Spinn

Talent we need and will pay for:
- Digital Artist for a logo. Looking for a non-complex logo  Reply in this thread and/or DM if interested.
- Community Manager. Mainly twitter to spread the word. Reply in this thread and/or DM if interested.
- Pre-Launch Testers. Looking for experienced node operators to help test. Reply in this thread and/or DM.

Announcing BARBEQUE CHIPS

I've been working on a project that will create a better cryptocurrency that will serve everyone, not just the developers, through Blind Quantum Conical Hyper Proofs or BQCHPs, pronounced Barbeque Chips. Not to be confused with BBQ Coin from way back.

BQCHPs allow for privacy and is resistant to inflation bugs.

Barbeque Chips uses post-quantum consensus algorithms and leverages incentives to achieve anonymity.

Consensus Rules:
Coin Supply: 21,000,000
Blocktime: 60 seconds
Algorithm: SHA3 (post-quantum)

How does it work?

Similar to bitcoin, transactions are broadcast, batched into blocks, but blocktime is much faster than bitcoin, at 60 seconds greatly increasing throughput. After a transaction enters a block, miners begin to solve new blocks; however we also introduce another role that anyone can participate in (no mining hardware needed) which is the role of spinning (more commonly known as mixing). Everyone who runs a Barbeque Chips node can enroll as a spinner. After a block is mined, spinners then mix the outputs on an ongoing basis. When a user spends an output the transaction is broadcast and the spinners enter into a smart contract where they must construct a valid signed transaction that spends to the desired output address the user defined, and the exact amount. There is no tie to the original spender and the funds that end-user receives. As multiple spinners could execute any transaction spinners are selected on a turn-based system. As long as you have equal or greater funds for the transaction and your node produces a valid smart contract you will not be skipped for your turn (the node will do this automatically but I'm just explaining the process behind the scenes). Spinners are rewarded by proportionally-allocating the block fees (not reward) for the block in which their transaction was included. Miners receive only block rewards, and spinners receive a portion of the fees paid relative to the proportion they funded.

Incentive
As we have seen with bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies incentive plays a very large role in the success of a currency. No block reward = no miners, no node reward = less node operators. Barbeque Chips offers miners an incentive to mine, node users an incentive to spin (mix), and every user the incentive to remain anonymous without having to enroll in any mixing service as it's automatically included in the protocol.

Pre-mine Disclosure
There will be 1 million pre-mined coins prior to launch.
10% will be held as a developer fund;
the other 90% will be available for pre-sale.

Road Map
- GitHub release for Open-Source review (coming soon!)
- Finish Website (bqchps.com coming soon!)
- Pre-Sale tranche 1 first 500,000 coins at GROUND FLOOR rate will go on for 1-week (rate TBD)
- Pre-Sale tranche 2 next 250,000 coins at early investor discount rate will go on for 1-week (rate TBD)
- Final Pre-Sale tranche 3 for 150,000 coins at a fair rate will go on for 2-weeks (rate TBD)
- Pre-sale proceeds will be used for development, marketing and to pay exchange listing fees. During the pre-sale we will be simultaneously working with different exchanges in order to get in-line and meet the listing requirements. We will be looking to hire an exchange professional or relations manager to assist with these pursuits, so if you have any experience or you feel you may be a good fit keep an eye on this thread or visit our website for more details.
- Launch!

A pre-mine and pre-sale is necessary not only for working capital but in order for the built-in spinning to work properly. We need users who already have coins prior to launch in order to provide liquidity needed for spinning.

Risks
If there is an insufficient amount of node operators and liquidity at launch, users attempting to spend may be unable to spend as the network is unable find a spin partner to broadcast their transaction for them. To mitigate this risk we have introduced a spinning role that is built-in with the node that can be operated without any mining hardware and earn rewards. This incentivizes users to run a node so they can earn funds just by running a node and by keeping a balance on their node wallet. The incentive should keep users running nodes, and thereby keeping the chain alive. Fortunately if users left and liquidity were to completely evaporate the chain can still be revived later if sufficient liquidity becomes available. If the amount of spinners ever goes to zero, it incentivizes someone to reactivate the chain on their own by adding liquidity as they would be the only spinner and thereby collecting 100% of mining fees of pending transactions. It should go without saying this will be an experiment.

Sorry I don't have a logo yet, I've been focusing more on the code. If you think you have an idea DM me, I'll pay to use it if I like it.

Yes house takes a cut of each pot.

I have already implemented a feature so that the page changes two hours before expiration. The addresses are no longer visible and there is a large text warning.

I made a new bitcoin price betting game. Let me know what you think.

https://bitcoinsox.com

It's a binary spot options exchange were users play against each other, not the exchange.

Bet if bitcoin's daily candle will close above or below the spot price. There's one game every day.

Buy a binary contract by sending funds to either the Over address or Under address. 50,000 sat minimum.

At midnight GMT every day contracts will expire. If the bitcoin price is over the spot price, then the Under contracts will be liquidated and proportionally allocated to the Over contract holders. If the price closes below the spot price, Over contracts will be divided up amongst the Under contract holders. The amount you win is based on the size of your bet relative to the others on your same side. For example, if the price closes Over the spot price and you own 10% of all the purchased Over contracts, you will receive 10% of the total of the Under contracts.

Contracts cannot be purchased in the final two hours before expiration.

What if the bets are lopsided to one side? Play safe and go with the majority and win a little, or go longshot for a big win.

https://i.imgur.com/k5oPfWp.jpg

Nevermind looks like the problem is the dumbasses at BitcoinABC copied SegWit signing code causing raw multisig transactions built using their client to be rejected by the bitcoin cash chain. Just wow    https://github.com/Bitcoin-ABC/bitcoin-abc/issues/63

If I don't have a fully synced ABC node how can I get the scriptPubKey in hex format needed to create a raw transaction? Do any block explorers have this in their data? All I can find is the ASM scriptPubKey.  I have a multisig paper wallet that I have no trouble spending on the legacy/real bitcoin chain. Now that I've moved the coins on the legacy chain I want to try and redeem my bitcoin cash, but I can't seem to find a block explorer that shows `listunspent` or anything useful to build a transaction. Am I have going to have to fully sync an ABC node? I can create sign and broadcast before being synced, but I'm having trouble finding the required parameters to sign the transaction.

Has anyone had any luck getting their bitcoin cash out of a paper multisig?

Did you ever resolve this? I'm having the same error when trying to split some coins from my paper wallet multisig. I was able to move these coins fine on bitcoin, but when building the raw transaction in BitcoinABC client I'm receiving this error when trying to broadcast. Is there an extra/different parameter for `createrawtransaction` or `signrawtransaction` I'm not aware of? 

     

Any idea what I did wrong?

I was following this schematic when building my transaction.