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Board Announcements (Altcoins)
Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 22/12/2013, 14:22:57 UTC
How many hashes does it take to find a share?

At difficult 1 we need 2^24 hashes approximatly for a block (16777216 Hashes)
So at a diff of around 5160 we need 2^24 * 5160 hashes = 86570434560 =~ 86,5 GHashes



Now about these 6 algorithms : blake, bmw, groestl, jh, keccak, skein... I wonder which one is the most secure ? Some of them must have their drawbacks ?

OK thanks for your answer georgem. So if one of the hashing functions was compromised, then the others would do the job anyway...

Now that's interesting. That would make Quark the most secure of all the alt-cryptos out there ?

Really, whatever hashing function you use: As long as there are no reasonable collision attacks and such stuff, its irrelevant of the hashing algorithm used.
Yes of course, have a newer ("more secure") hashing function means, that the point in time when the computer technology is so advanced that this is doable in somehwat reasonable time, that this point in time is later, but really who cares?
Just do a hard fork and replace the hashing algorithms for all blocks newer than block X.

And currently Quark also uses SHA256 for the Merkle Tree...




What are "Transaction Fees" and why are they important to Bitcoin and Litcoin ; Why and how does Quark have no Transaction fees ?

[...]

in contrast:

Quark provides its users and investors with a Fee FREE environment this is because of the EQ reward , this means that if you are a SME or small business ,or a home business ; www.keepitwooden.com/ < (i'm buying some : D) you have no fees to worry about what so ever -


Once again: schmarrn

Please read the code before you are stating such things which are provable wrong.
That is what makes others think about quark as scamcoin

Quarkcoin HAS transaction fees, and follows the same rules about "free transactions" as Bitcoin.
And since these rules were made for bitcoin, but in quark we have a faster block time and most of the time a bigger volume (important for the priority calculations) often the requirements for free transactions where met.
Remember the problems with transactions (mostly from p2pools inputs) hanging in the network. This happend because of that rules.
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 19/12/2013, 18:53:33 UTC
Interesting that Bill said Quark was made after the NSA Snowden story. So the developer made it more secure to protect the people who using it. Very well thought

schmarrn
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 14/12/2013, 23:51:13 UTC

The 51% attack ---snip---

But the psychological effect is more dangerous that the actual attack.
FTC survived two of those. Others did not.

Exactly my point!
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 14/12/2013, 23:49:16 UTC
Except he pays out to each pool member. You can see that in the transaction history.

I think you didn't understand what i meant he holds them ALL:

He has currently control of ALL Quarkcoins available, yours, mine, everyones, he could i think create arbitary transactions, generate coins at his will. (I'm not sure about the last part)

He has a high reputation so of course he will not do that, but this is not healthy for a coin. It's a permanent 51% "attack".




What you say could only be true if he never paid out to the pool members. He has paid so he has very few coins.

You still don't get it.
Please google (Bitcoin) 51% attack. For Bitcoin this imho never happened, but it hink FTC was one of the coins who already had one

No I don't think you understand the 51% attack. Feeleep doesn't control all the coins, once he pays them for example to me and I put them in my wallet he can't do anything with those coins.

He can block them from ever be spend for example:)

No he can't! You are really out in left field on how transactions and the block chain work.


https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Attacker_has_a_lot_of_computing_power

Quote
An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:

    Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control. This has the potential to double-spend transactions that previously had already been seen in the block chain.
    Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
    Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks

And yes, some of my points which i marked as where i am unsure above are not possible:

Quote
The attacker can't:

    Reverse other people's transactions
    Prevent transactions from being sent at all (they'll show as 0/unconfirmed)
    Change the number of coins generated per block
    Create coins out of thin air
    Send coins that never belonged to him

So, he can prevent your coins from being spent.
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 14/12/2013, 23:43:02 UTC
He can block them from ever be spend for example:)

Go for a win-win: team-up with him and double (triple, quadruple, n-uple...) spend at will Cheesy

It still requires clever engineering to actually profit from double spend attacks, even with 90% hashrate under control, you can't force every node on the network (thinking of the exchanges) to think and accept whatever you would like them to.

Yes, but the more value something has the more likely such a think will be.
That was generally spoken, feeleep wouldn't do that!
And me neither, since (and i know everyone on the internet says that;-) i'm a honest person.

But as told earlier it's more important for the future and the integrity of the coin itself, although i'm not sure if there will be a future, since i don't like some of the ways it is now hyped "to da moon", and if that won't do some non fixable damage.
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 14/12/2013, 23:25:11 UTC
Except he pays out to each pool member. You can see that in the transaction history.

I think you didn't understand what i meant he holds them ALL:

He has currently control of ALL Quarkcoins available, yours, mine, everyones, he could i think create arbitary transactions, generate coins at his will. (I'm not sure about the last part)

He has a high reputation so of course he will not do that, but this is not healthy for a coin. It's a permanent 51% "attack".




What you say could only be true if he never paid out to the pool members. He has paid so he has very few coins.

You still don't get it.
Please google (Bitcoin) 51% attack. For Bitcoin this imho never happened, but it hink FTC was one of the coins who already had one

No I don't think you understand the 51% attack. Feeleep doesn't control all the coins, once he pays them for example to me and I put them in my wallet he can't do anything with those coins.

He can block them from ever be spend for example:)
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 14/12/2013, 22:48:57 UTC
The >51% situation is the same for many alts (think of "rare" MM coins like DVC or IXC and BitParking, they also have >90%).

Of course it's suboptimal, but it doesn't make the coin worthless. It merely means that miners have decided to trust a single entity to pool their efforts. Nothing more, and, granted, nothing less: trusting a central entity is not the aim of crypto coins IMO, at least not the original Bitcoin.

Miners could, theoretically, at any time, move away from CoinMine.pl and solo mine and/or switch pools, if they no longer trust them, or if they are no longer pleased by their policy.

Of course doesn't make this the coin worthless, but imho in the longer run, for a stable and widely accepted coin, this must be fixed.
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 14/12/2013, 22:45:55 UTC
Except he pays out to each pool member. You can see that in the transaction history.

I think you didn't understand what i meant he holds them ALL:

He has currently control of ALL Quarkcoins available, yours, mine, everyones, he could i think create arbitary transactions, generate coins at his will. (I'm not sure about the last part)

He has a high reputation so of course he will not do that, but this is not healthy for a coin. It's a permanent 51% "attack".




What you say could only be true if he never paid out to the pool members. He has paid so he has very few coins.

You still don't get it.
Please google (Bitcoin) 51% attack. For Bitcoin this imho never happened, but it hink FTC was one of the coins who already had one
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 14/12/2013, 22:21:19 UTC
Except he pays out to each pool member. You can see that in the transaction history.

I think you didn't understand what i meant he holds them ALL:

He has currently control of ALL Quarkcoins available, yours, mine, everyones, he could i think create arbitary transactions, generate coins at his will. (I'm not sure about the last part)

He has a high reputation so of course he will not do that, but this is not healthy for a coin. It's a permanent 51% "attack".


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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 14/12/2013, 22:10:55 UTC

---snip---

EDIT:

Just looked at the generation TX of last 100 Blocks:

From 86 of them the destination address was the same, which i assume is the pools address.
This means, although this is only a very rough estimations:

86% of the networks hashing power lies by this pool, and here we are: housten, we have a very big problem...

EDIT2:
Looking at the stats prooves this: http://www.coinmine.pl/qrk/index.php?page=statistics&action=blocks
Block Overview
   Gen Est.    Found    Valid    Orphan    Avg Diff    Shares Est.    Shares    Percentage    Amount    Rate Est.
All Time    308,642    176345    175056    1289    1,101.2280    48194144    67308505    139.66%    25459277.001874    57.14%
Last Hour    120    105    105    0    5,510.0801    144640    199012    137.59%    1680.0195    87.50%
Last 24 Hours    2880    2577    2576    1    5,958.9464    3837562    4721686    123.04%    41220.21616    89.48%
Last 7 Days    20160    17745    17743    2    4,733.0264    20994522    19637075    93.53%    283927.71958001    88.02%
Last 4 Weeks    80640    65543    65520    23    2,493.8772    40849708    44652365    109.31%    1643143.30782    81.28%
Last 12 Month    967680    176345    175056    1289    1,101.2280    48194144    67308505    139.66%    25459277.001874    18.22%

EDIT3:
And just to be clear:

i personally have no reason to distrust the pool operator, but thats a thing that needs to be fixed ASAP or bter38 will never come, and maybe otehr trading platforms will suspend Quark wich would definatly be a pity.


talk to Feeleep he is a member here and runs the pools.

Will do, and as said to my knowledge there is no reason to distrust him.

Funny thing is now: all that talking about some few people hold what 60% or so of the coins is now obsolete, since Feeleep holds them currently ALL.
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 14/12/2013, 21:45:44 UTC
Could someone please prove my following maths wrong:

hash_rate = (blocks_found/expected_blocks*difficulty * 2^24 / 30)

I looked at the block window from block 456520 onwards (approx 2013-12-14 20:10:18 GMT)
Lets look at a 5 minute window, which should get us 10 blocks.
Depending if we start this window at 20:10:00 or 20:10:18 we get 10 or 11 blocks "solved" in that time, so lets take the middle and take a factor of 1.05

So we have:

hash_rate = 1.05 * 6411.26760900 * 16777216 / 30
hash_rate =~ 3764712752 =~  3,76 GH/s

So we have approximatly a network hashrate of 3,67 GHashes per second.

http://qrk.coinmine.pl/ showed at that time an approximate pool hashrate of 3,8 GH/s.

So either my maths are totaly wrong, the pools hahsrate display is totaly wrong, or houston, we have a very big problem...

pools hashrates are notorious for being wrong.

So what du you think the real hashrate of that pool is?
3 GHash, 2,5 GHash?

EDIT:

Just looked at the generation TX of last 100 Blocks:

From 86 of them the destination address was the same, which i assume is the pools address.
This means, although this is only a very rough estimations:

86% of the networks hashing power lies by this pool, and here we are: housten, we have a very big problem...

EDIT2:
Looking at the stats prooves this: http://www.coinmine.pl/qrk/index.php?page=statistics&action=blocks
Block Overview
   Gen Est.    Found    Valid    Orphan    Avg Diff    Shares Est.    Shares    Percentage    Amount    Rate Est.
All Time    308,642    176345    175056    1289    1,101.2280    48194144    67308505    139.66%    25459277.001874    57.14%
Last Hour    120    105    105    0    5,510.0801    144640    199012    137.59%    1680.0195    87.50%
Last 24 Hours    2880    2577    2576    1    5,958.9464    3837562    4721686    123.04%    41220.21616    89.48%
Last 7 Days    20160    17745    17743    2    4,733.0264    20994522    19637075    93.53%    283927.71958001    88.02%
Last 4 Weeks    80640    65543    65520    23    2,493.8772    40849708    44652365    109.31%    1643143.30782    81.28%
Last 12 Month    967680    176345    175056    1289    1,101.2280    48194144    67308505    139.66%    25459277.001874    18.22%

EDIT3:
And just to be clear:

I personally have no reason to distrust the pool operator, but thats a thing that needs to be fixed ASAP or btc38 will never come, and maybe other trading platforms will suspend Quark, which would definatly be a pity.
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 14/12/2013, 20:36:31 UTC
Could someone please prove my following maths wrong:

hash_rate = (blocks_found/expected_blocks*difficulty * 2^24 / 30)

I looked at the block window from block 456520 onwards (approx 2013-12-14 20:10:18 GMT)
Lets look at a 5 minute window, which should get us 10 blocks.
Depending if we start this window at 20:10:00 or 20:10:18 we get 10 or 11 blocks "solved" in that time, so lets take the middle and take a factor of 1.05

So we have:

hash_rate = 1.05 * 6411.26760900 * 16777216 / 30
hash_rate =~ 3764712752 =~  3,76 GH/s

So we have approximatly a network hashrate of 3,67 GHashes per second.

http://qrk.coinmine.pl/ showed at that time an approximate pool hashrate of 3,8 GH/s.

So either my maths are totaly wrong, the pools hahsrate display is totaly wrong, or houston, we have a very big problem...
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 10/12/2013, 12:11:52 UTC
Hi guys.

I'm not sure where is the "support" thread or forum for QRK, but it seems there is a bug it should be handled sooner than later.

The problem is sometimes transactions are not sent to the network, but for your local client seems they've been. So you spent some QRKs and you "lost" them from your wallet, but the transaction is never propagated thought the network nor included in any block.

If you try to check the transaction in a blockexplorer or using getrawtransaction (in a client properly configured to get and store all that information from blockchain) the transaction doesn't exist at all. If you check in your own client, you can see the transaction properly having 0 confirmations.

As there is no way to force the resend of the transaction, there is a huge problem when you want to deal with payments in an automatic mood... and a big problem when you're doing those by yourself, because to recover your funds, you need to: Dump your private keys, reinstall a fresh client, import private keys there, and redownload/rescan the blockchain in order to get your money available again.

Can anybody tell me who can be contacted about this issue in order to provide more information if needed?

TXID is ba07e12c1c58b57f26d1c983d564d448eb90cc8810d10c4e25aafe569ff332fd, but you won't be able to find it in the blockchain.

It was created with createrawtransaction [{"txid":"a305c35df688cfd15d8c1d78c6d679c3ba37883944755c35f2f7985b54dd7bf5","vout":1}] {"QhrNXCEN8iwhpzSkMy7J99BiqjKXPUTy83": 0.002, "QXoUVrqAitgrcTYvCZihjSCxE8gBfYSaSH": 0.9979}, properly signed and sended to the network.

Thanks in advance.


I cannot answer this all in perfect detail, but can give you some insight.

First of all, you don't need to do the whole reinstall stuff. You can run the wallet with the -salvage option.
This is somewhat compared to creating a new wallet, import all keys from the old in the new one and do a blockchain scan, without downloading the chain again.

Transactions need most of the time/often a transaction fee, if not, it is normally not processed and/or relayed by other nodes. But looking at your transaction i see you are already know that and have a fee of 0.0001 (input of 1.0, two outputs which add up to 0.9999).
I'm not sure about the needed amount for the fee, i think it is comparable to bitcoin.
Also the criteria to get a fee-free transaction are imho the same as in the bitcoin client (Inputs-age, TX-size, Value, ...)

 
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 09/12/2013, 23:02:32 UTC
Does anyone happen to know a formula to calculate how long it would take on average to find a block at the difficulty X with hashingpower Y?

At average it's:

Diff * 2^24 / Your Hashing Power (in Hashes) = seconds at average per block

For example with Diff 3647 and 10 MHash/s:

3647 * 2^24 / 10MHash =
3647 * 16777216 / 10000000 = 6118,5 seconds = 101 min ~ 1,7h


(It's late so hopefully i didn't make a mistake)
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 26/09/2013, 12:21:54 UTC

...  the actual rate is the 8.22MH/s, but it just reports the 528kH/s (well, in this case since there are two pools operating, it'd be like 7mh/s on pool 1 and 1.2mh/s on pool 2... but the local rates still don't add up to the pool rate).  i installed the https://github.com/Neisklar/quarkcoin-hash-python  but that only fixes my own miner, not what the pool reports?     re: if I start mining with one of my servers, the local rate goes up a ton


That python module is only for calculating the blockhash using the quark algorithm for p2pool and the blockexplorer, it's not for a miner.

There are minerd version out there which have a small bug, that they only report 0.0039 Diff or higher shares.
It's fixed (and i'm sorry for that i accidentially hide it somewhat in the commit messages) in the quarkcoin cpu miner repo
https://github.com/Neisklar/quarkcoin-cpuminer/commit/b1af442712ee82fe9764df3812d134a99e11e3f2.
That can be the cause of wrong reported values.

I think i did not update the binaries i released, since at that point, i though that such a low diff would never be happen again and did not though about the p2pool and the pseudo shares. (You could workaound in the p2pool by raising the lowest pseudoshare target)
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 10/09/2013, 09:40:45 UTC
For scrypt mining (and scrypt-jane) it takes 65536 hashes to get a share of diff 1. It also takes 65536 shares (diff 1) for every point of difficulty to find a block. This doesn't seem to be the case for QRK. Does anyone know these values for QRK?

That's not entirely right.
IMHO there is a somewhat defacto standard for stratum only, where the diff for scrypt based coins is a 65536 multiply if the original diff which the wallet reports.

So Bitcoin, Litecoin, and so on all require at average for a wallet-diff 1 2^32 hashes (means 65536*65536)
Quarkcoin and quarkcoin clones are "one byte off", means a wallet-diff 1 needs at average 2^24 hashes
Since scrypt is much slower than the sha stuff, scrypt based coins started with a much lower difficulty (i think 256*128 times lower) than bitcoin based ones.
I don't know if stratum at first only supported integer diffs and not the needed 0.00xxx diffs, or whatever the reason was, somehow on stratum the coins diff (as reported by the wallet) is multiplied by 65536.

As said for Quark: Diff 1 is 2^24. Stratum shouldn't modify this value. At least i didn't code any reversing of stratum diff in the minerd.

(If i did write garbage, please correct me)

Sounds like someone switched off a botnet (or his boss found out). The hashrate on the few p2pools I checked, including mine, is rather stable. Also, was the diff really above 950? I don't look for the diff often, didn't notice that.

Also we have some mainly 1:1 clones using the quark hashing algorithm
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 04/09/2013, 15:53:33 UTC
What i'm really wondering right now is what is with that guy that said we all need to patch our miners a few pages back ?
He was saying something about it fixing reporting to P2Pools ? something to do with pseudo-share settings ?

I don't know if this miner is actually "patched". The original code had a problem with very low diffs. The problem was that it did a fast pre check which only allowed diffs 0f 0.0039... or higher. Thus when a fresh p2pool was set up, the pool did give out lower diff. But the miner only reported back hashed above 0.0039. Thus the p2pools speed calculations was wrong, as well it may happend that valid pool shares was thrown away (ONLY poolshares, NEVER valid block hashes)

This commit beside some other thing has the fix in it:
https://github.com/Neisklar/quarkcoin-cpuminer/commit/b1af442712ee82fe9764df3812d134a99e11e3f2
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 30/08/2013, 05:40:13 UTC

0% fee, 0% donation (does that address even go to someone?)....  

Yep, it's one of mine.

Please be sure to read the comments in the source p2pool/data.py (i think around line 50)
...
wait, i had that somewhere written already, lets post that, some important thing is marked bold
Quote
That address is somewhat special, in one of the posts in the Quarkcoin thead here i mentioned that stuff already.
I noted my (hopeful correct) findings of it in the source: p2pool/data.py:

starting around line 54
Code:
### Neisklar:
### It took a while to figure it out:
### This is a UNCOMPRESSED public key surrounded by 4104 ... ac
### Important is the (clever or not?) way it is used:
### ALL shares in the p2pools chains depend on that value, means if you would like to join a p2pool network with your own node with this value changed
### would invalidate ALL shares. Means your own node would see all shares from the other nodes as invalid, and the p2pool network with the other value would see
### all your shares as invalid. Of course if you run a standalone node as pool, this isn't a problem, as long as you DO NOT change this value after your local node
### has produced some shares without deleting the share database /data/
### Also important: It must be so long, i tried it with newer Script wich includes only the pubkey hash (76a914...(pubkey_hash)...88ac), this will break the pool.

DONATION_SCRIPT = '4104ebc79bbfd3901db557108d9e8815bf13ff2c170a63ff1546a6e6d99ef90004f78b94753ba550e9be681cde100ed84a439103e03290f1d34cf4d7e1c3535d2a93ac'.decode('hex')

So thats an address of me ( Wink), if someone wants to do it (i don't know why) he could run the node with --donate-to-author or somewhat to give that address some share. That param was in the original code even defaulted to 1 percent, i did zero it hopefully in the source.

Another important thing is when you look at the stats page under rewards of my pool you see the following:
Qe91rA2W8fQ3b19cknuVuxVhxgqdbkvL4m   0.0002
EVEN as donations to author are set to 0.
This is all what is left after payoutprocessing which has some rounding in it. So with current reward of 1024 thats not so much, but when the reward gows down, that will be much more.


So if you want to change that, no problem, you need an uncompressed public key (should be 65 bytes long) and put them between the 4104 and the ac. (It may also that that uncompressed pubkey is already prefixed with 04, then don't double the 04).

If we later establish a p2pool network, then this value MUST be the same on all nodes, if not it will not work (clever or not of the original p2pool author?).
If the time arrives, lets discuss that together with Max the developer of Quark and then maybe use as Network-Donantion address an address of Max, or some other address which is used for special stuff.

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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 29/08/2013, 18:27:33 UTC
Yeah i saw that, maybe too many connections or quarkcoind used too much cpu? Or the too many files open error, I have that on my yacpool sometimes if I forget ulimit -n 1000000.
Have you seen what p2pool reports during those times, if anything? My yacpool sometimes is not reachable for a short time (~5 min) from browsers, but p2pool keeps running fine and miners submit work if i go check, I think that happens when yacoind uses a lot of CPU.

I will did into the log and hope thats not already rotated out.

Also there are still some corrupt miners which submit shares above target, it looks like it's reporting all it calculates:

QP967T5PavPKNdFm4ctqxLdbLMhECU5uoZ

If i were better in Python i would implement a temporary IP ban for such clients, so the clients get some notice.
Or is there a way to pass some messages to the miner with stratum and/or http RPC?
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Re: [ANN] [QRK] Quark | Super secure hashing | CPU mining
by
Neisklar
on 29/08/2013, 17:37:29 UTC
Great post, my thoughts exactly. Post your QRK address already so ppl can tip you!  Tongue

Yeah, when i'm back at work next week, need to get my main address:)



I have no idea what the blockexplorer problem is, so i will reset the database of the blockexplorer (not the pool) and let abe reimport all stuff.
Hopefully that will fix all issues. If not, maybe quarkcoind's database is out of sync
When I searched the error it seems to relate to network reviewing blocks or of order or orphans confusing Abe.  Was supposedly fixed 7 months ago on bitcoin Abe are you perhaps using an outdated fork?

No, thats relativly up-to-date. (2 or 3 wekks)
But it was maybe that every FastCGI instance started was trying to import, and the database got inconsistent.
Now FastCGi won't import, and the dataimport does now a cronjob, which runs every minute (so it may that not always the newest block is visible)
(Hmm,  it may also since the quaktcoind used for the blockexplorer is the same as the one from the p2pool instance. I will later seperate them)

@all:

The Blockexplorer is working again.


Edit:
@other p2pool operators:

On the stats page of the pool i regulary have some spikes going to zero, i think if had had read the forum correctly, then also there is no connection to the miners. If you find a solution, please share it.