I find no entertainment value in owning or using Bitcoin, certainly not enough to account for any meaningful percentage of its value.

I am willing to pay towards the profit of a movie (its value to its creators exceeding its cost) because I find personal value in consuming it.

Apart from the (highly unlikely) "Bitcoin as a collectors item" thing, I don't see a realistic parallel in your argument...

Ben

Likewise, I could be proven wrong.
Personally I am 100% confident that Bitcoin will never again be priced over $300.
But like anybody who makes a reasoned prediction, there are no guarantees, only degrees of confidence.

Ben

You're right, $300 is an arbitrary figure. That figure represents my degree of confidence in the strength of my argument.
If I thought Bitcoin had a bigger "value envelope", I'd have said $400 or $500...

You saying that "supply and demand determines the value of things" is not a valid counter-argument.
Please try again.

Ben

I'm not saying that 1 sat = 1 BTC. I'm saying that 1 sat has the same blockchain/transactional capability as 1 BTC.
This is where the "If 21M people want BTC, we hit the utility ceiling!" argument falls apart.

Are you saying that the potential exists for transactional demand to surpass a supply of 2.1 quadrillion fungible units, when the primary argument for Bitcoin centers around its functional value over otherwise perfectly usable dollars?

Ben

This isn't a cogent argument, it's sarcastic fluff.
Please return when you can back up your bullish position with a strong rationale.

Ben

Fine, I'll narrow the scope of my statement:

"Bitcoin will never again be priced over $300, for so long as the United States Dollar and/or the Euro and/or the Chinese Yuan exist as the world's de facto reserve currencies."

Better?

Ben

The rate at which wallets become inaccessible + the rate at which people intentionally burn BTC, cumulatively weighs as only a tiny fraction of a percent in the Bitcoin value equation.
And no, that rate won't 'spiral exponentially over time' or other nonsense.

Try again.

Ben

I strongly disagree, for this simple fact: one satoshi carries exactly the same transactional capability and benefit to consumers/merchants as does one full Bitcoin.
People need to get over the mindset of $1/BTC1, i.e., value being assigned in integer increments.

The current Bitcoin protocol provides for a maximum of 21M BTC x 100M sat = 2.1 QUADRILLION units of fungible supply.

Ben

The only real value still built in is that of the electricity and hardware costs.

As global mining operations continue to consolidate, mining efficiency increases. This trend is predictable and irreversible. Therefore that intrinsic "cost of creation" declines at a rate that's also predictable.

Any speculative value that's currently built in is also fated to decline as trading efficiency increases and arbitrage opportunity disappears -- not to mention that the classic early-stage hype bubble has come and gone.

Finally, any commerce/transactional-discount value that's currently built in will decrease as the user marketplace approaches ubiquity and merchant competition dilutes potential margin plays.

... I look forward to intelligent, reasoned arguments for how Bitcoin will again find a value north of $300.

Ben

Hi Dev, any updates on CYC progress?
Activity on here seems to be at an all-time low.
Are you still full time on development?

HOW? How will the price increase?
Where will the new buyers come from?
How will they know about the new features?
...From the Dev's 100-follower Twitter account?
What will bring them to this thread?

WHERE DO YOU GET THE CONFIDENCE THAT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF CAPITAL WILL SUDDENLY RUSH BACK INTO THIS COIN JUST BECAUSE WE CLONE TWO FEATURES THAT SO MANY OTHERS ALREADY HAVE?

Boomcoin added Stealth Addresses and Encrypted Messaging last week and look how "well" that worked out for them.

MARKETING is what will save/revive/enchance CYC's value and market awareness, NOT coding in new features.
REBRANDING/RELAUNCH is the only way to perk enough new excitement, to draw 50/100/200 BTC volume and ramp the price to 3K/5K/10K sats.

This is my area of expertise and as a six-figure CYC holder I'm happy to work hard with the Dev + community, BUT we need to pull our heads out of the fantasy sand ASAP.

Ben

This coin, as it stands, is dead.

Solution: While he still has the exchanges' attention, Dev should immediately rebrand the blockchain and start a clean marketing push... Firecoin ?

By doing this -- timed well with Dev's transition to full-time work -- we as a community, with the Dev leading, can implement new/innovative features, and excite new investors without being held back by the baggage of the past two weeks.

The passion for what this coin represents right now will carry over and be more invigorated than ever.

To help, I am offering offer to create a dynamic, professionally-designed ANN to kick us off.

Thoughts?

Ben

http://i.imgur.com/n0cX812.jpg

From every discussion/vote I've seen on here, Trello, and the Hangout, the consensus is "Silkcoin".
The current wallet and the beta wallet's logo reflects this.
Arteleis, can you please provide confirmation?
We don't have any more time to debate this.

Ben

Crypt0Keeper
If you're able, please modify the logo at the top of the Reddit page to read "Silkcoin" instead of "Silk Coin".
If you pasted an existing graphic someone else made, let me know and I will send you an updated version this evening.

** Team FYI **
For anybody working on graphics/social media, the font we're using for Silkcoin's logo is called 'Playball' and can be downloaded here:
http://www.fontspace.com/typesetit/playball

To help us achieve the next level of branding professionalism, I am compiling a formal Silkcoin Media Design Guide as time permits... stay tuned!

Ben

Team -- what were formally known as "Ben's Bounties" are now "Silkcoin Bounties" and a new section has been added to the ANN.
The pledges and claims therein will be updated frequently by yours truly.
Be sure to PM me if you'd like to make a new pledge or if you've paid out a previous pledge.

Ben

Ben's Bounties v.2

UPDATE 2.1: Jul. 5/14: Bounties modified to reflect current tech goals
UPDATE 2.2: Jul. 10/14: Payouts reflected + Big prize decided + New pledges!
UPDATE 2.3: Jul. 15/14: New multipool pledges!

5,000 - for securing www.silkcoin.co and transferring control to the webmaster our community nominates. Invoice and whois confirm required for payout.
PAID TO pandionrain

10,000 - for 10 positive news and promo Tweets from a crypto-related account with more than 1000 followers.

10,000 - for arranging a "Silkcoin Takeover" Coindesk article. Probably best to secure after the next stable update is released. Correspondence with author required for payout.

30,000 - for designing and publishing a new website at www.silkcoin.co ... our new public face!
PAYOUT PENDING TO moniq AWAITING CONFIRM (first 5K sent Jul. 5)

50,000 - goes to the person or group who releases a polished Android wallet!
(not just some shitty alpha, but one that's competitive in fit & finish. For a good example see Zetacoin's release in the Play Store)

---

Here's who's pledged to match my bounties so far.
*** These are all voluntary and self-directed, so it will be claimants' responsibility to follow up with the respective pledgers
*** The community bounties being held in escrow by BadAss.Sx are completely separate from what's listed here

Mr. Joker - 20% MATCH - Old thread message #836
Arteleis - 100% MATCH - Old thread message #842
Ifxist - 100% MATCH - Old thread message #866
+
Dimitry - 5,000 SC to devs (mbishop75 + PalmDetroit?) on release of 1.1 wallet - PAID Jul. 16
Dimitry - 2,000 SC for establishing a dedicated multipool - New thread message #598
Mr. Joker - 20,000 SC for establishing a dedicated multipool - New thread message #598
Ifxist - 20,000 SC for establishing a dedicated multipool - New thread message #598
Jeffersonairplane - 10,000 SC for establishing a dedicated multipool - New thread message #598

Cheers to everybody's hard work!

Ben

Nice colour balance, sparc0. I think we're trying to skew towards the "desert" palettes, but you're heading in the right direction.
Try mocking it up with these logo elements:

http://i.imgur.com/DKJ34rN.png   http://i.imgur.com/ZWMLSHx.png   http://i.imgur.com/tmddvVw.png

Wow, every other ANN I click on sucks so bad, style-wise; even the big money players (DRK/CLOAK/BC).
And this is just the beginning for us... 

Ben

Ben's Bounties v.2

UPDATE 2.1: Jul. 5/14: Bounties modified to reflect current tech goals
UPDATE 2.2: Jul. 10/14: Payouts reflected + Big prize decided + New pledges!

5,000 - for securing www.silkcoin.co and transferring control to the webmaster our community nominates. Invoice and whois confirm required for payout.
PAID TO pandionrain

10,000 - for 10 positive news and promo Tweets from a crypto-related account with more than 1000 followers.

10,000 - for arranging a "Silkcoin Takeover" Coindesk article. Probably best to secure after the next stable update is released. Correspondence with author required for payout.

30,000 - for designing and publishing a new website at www.silkcoin.co ... our new public face!
PAYOUT PENDING TO moniq AWAITING CONFIRM (first 5K sent Jul. 5)

50,000 - goes to the person or group who releases a polished Android wallet!
(not just some shitty alpha, but one that's competitive in fit & finish. For a good example see Zetacoin's release in the Play Store)

---

Here's who's pledged to match my bounties so far.
*** These are all voluntary and self-directed, so it will be claimants' responsibility to follow up with the respective pledgers
*** The community bounties being held in escrow by BadAss.Sx are completely separate from what's listed here

Mr. Joker - 20% MATCH - Old thread message #836
Arteleis - 100% MATCH - Old thread message #842
ifxist - 100% MATCH - Old thread message #866
+
Dimitry - 5,000 SC to devs (mbishop75 + PalmDetroit?) on release of 1.1 wallet - New thread message #407
Mr. Joker - 20,000 SC for establishing a dedicated multipool - New thread message #411

Cheers to everybody's hard work!

Ben

Ben's Bounties v.2

UPDATE 2.1: Jul. 5/14: Bounties modified to reflect current tech goals
UPDATE 2.2: Jul. 10/14: Payouts reflected

5,000 - for securing www.silkcoin.co and transferring control to the webmaster our community nominates. Invoice and whois confirm required for payout.
PAID TO pandionrain

10,000 - for 10 positive news and promo Tweets from a crypto-related account with more than 1000 followers.

10,000 - for arranging a "Silkcoin Takeover" Coindesk article. Probably best to secure after the next stable update is released. Correspondence with author required for payout.

30,000 - for designing and publishing a new website at www.silkcoin.co ... our new public face!
PAYOUT PENDING TO moniq AWAITING CONFIRM (first 5K sent Jul. 5)

50,000 -I'm going to let the community vote on this one... Android wallet? Building the marketplace framework? Coding an in-wallet chat engine?
(Re: the previous version of this bounty - the consensus is we're going to build and optimize using the current code base; BTC 0.9.2.1+ migration once it's a proven success)

---

You can now find the funds here:
BNiVS57bss5MvdqmXZG7yqXZee3hHboHfp
I will pay them out as each task is completed. PM me on here if you're entitled to one.

---

Here's who's pledged to match my bounties so far.
*** These are all voluntary and self-directed, so it will be claimants' responsibility to follow up with the respective pledgers
*** The community bounties being held in escrow by BadAss.Sx are completely separate

Mr. Joker - 20% MATCH - Thread message #836
Arteleis - 100% MATCH - Thread message #842
ifxist - 100% MATCH - Thread message #866

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=664918.0

Cheers to everybody's hard work!

Ben