Here's a link to a branch where I tried to use leveldb:

https://github.com/trentrussell/qeditas/tree/trdevnfth-leveldb

It actually does compile, at least for me on debian. I got leveldb-1.18 and then compiled it. To compile qeditas I first had to set some directories are set using the configure file:


I have in my notes though that in some situation I got an error like:


Instead of trying to figure this out, I switched to just saving things in files. I assume this is some kind of linking error which would be easy to resolve if I knew more about it.

OK. I can give a short summary of what I've been doing.

In January I tried using a fork of Clams to do the networking and database storage for Qeditas. This worked well enough that I had two or three nodes running a testnet for about a week. There were problems though and I don't think it makes sense to inherit a lot of code and dependencies that aren't needed. So now I'm trying to directly code the networking and database code in ocaml with the rest of Qeditas.

One technical point might be worth mentioning: I got rid of "frames" entirely. Now ledger trees (ctrees) are always stored and communicated as "elements"  -- essentially 9 levels with hashes summarizing the lowest levels (except leaves).

It's like fixing the "frame" to be one that abstracts every nine levels.

If all goes well, at some point I should be able to get some kind of testnet running. If so, I'll say more about how others can run a testnet node too. But I don't know if "at some point" will be next month or next year. Even at that point, I wouldn't recommend starting a mainnet until the testnet has run without a problem for a few months and people have had a chance to review the code.

Since it seems like there's still lots of time before Qeditas will launch, I want to propose that the units in the initial distribution slowly decrease over time. Specifically, I'm thinking that the distribution from the snapshot that can be claimed is 100% for roughly the first 5 years, but then halves along with the block reward every 4 years. I wrote code that does this in one of my Qeditas branches:

https://github.com/trentrussell/qeditas/blob/trdevnf/src/assets.ml#L92

A situation occurred in the Clam community recently where someone found out they had a significant amount of clams from the initial distribution and over a couple of months "dug" them ("digging" is the way clams are claimed) and sold them on the market. Not only did this hurt the price of clams a lot, it also fractured the community. Some insisted that "digging" be stopped to avoid a big digger event happening again. Others insisted that stopping digging would be breaking the promise of the original distribution.

To avoid a similar debate in Qeditas, I think it's a good idea to already know that the threat of someone with a massive distribution from the snapshot is temporary. At the same time, everyone should have sufficient time to make their claim. Five years seems like a reasonable amount of time. After that, those with Qeditas currency from the initial distribution can still make their claim, but they will effectively get less. This halving would continue for roughly 200 years until the remaining units from the initial distribution is 0. Another reason this is a good idea is that there's no way to tell the difference between "lost" coins and unclaimed coins. Over time, unclaimed coins (from the initial distribution) disappear, leading to more certainty about the coin supply.

Bill wrote me that he has "mixed feelings" about reducing the initial distribution over time like this, but is "open to being persuaded." He suggested I ask for comments on the thread. I'll let him say more about his opinions on the matter if he wants.

Thoughts? Is this controversial?

Funny thing about Poisson Processes: Every day you don't stake, you still have 100,000 days to go.

I have added some code for Qeditas to call qednet for things. Things are looking good so far.

One thing, though. I looked at the "frame" used to create the initial distribution ctree (in qeditasinit.ml in the initdistr branch):


I wanted to save this frame in the database and potentially share it with peers, but the serialization of it was surprisingly large (over 100K). Looking closer it was clear this could be improved by using sharing. I changed the serialization code (seo_frame and sei_frame) to check if the two children of a binary FBin node are equal and treat this separately from the "real" binary case. This made the serialization of the frame above only 9 bytes(!).

Here's the modified serialization code:

https://github.com/trentrussell/qeditas/blob/trdev/src/ctre.ml#L706

I tried to do things the same was as was described in the Serialization chapter of:

http://qeditas.org/qeditastechdoc.pdf

Hopefully you'll be more content after you really let go of any connection to Clams. At the moment you're behaving like a "crazy ex." After you really let go, there will be no reason for you to come to this thread at all. If you're having trouble letting go, consider talking to someone in real life about the situation.

Thanks. I was able to extend the C++ code to have a "savedatafromfile" command and used it to save all the initial ctree abbrev files into the leveldb database. It takes up about 330MB total.

I can then get them back upon demand:


In principle another node should be able to get the data from a peer:
But it doesn't get sent for some reason, so it's still work in progress.

Edit: I found the problem, so now ctrees can be requested from peers.

My fork of the clam code is described here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=998559.msg13498133#msg13498133

In short: I'm trying to use the modified clam network to pass around data for a different network (Qeditas). I do it by representing everything as a dummy clam tx (generally no inputs and no outputs) that has all the actual data in the clamspeech part. Yes, it's a hack. But it might work, and I don't have enough C++ experience to code it cleanly from scratch (like having a new class for each kind of data).

I was working with the code for Clams and thought of how I might be able to modify it to provide the network infrastructure you need for Qeditas. Clam transactions have a "clamspeech" part which can hold arbitrary data. This could be used (or abused?) to have dummy Clam transactions whose main content is a clamspeech part carrying Qeditas data (txs, blocks, ctrees, etc). In addition to giving a way of sharing the data between peers, the dummy txs with the Qeditas data can be stored in the local leveldb tx database.

I forked Clams, made some modifications and renamed it "qednet". It's on github with a "trdev" branch that has the actual modifications:

https://github.com/trentrussell/qednet/tree/trdev

I also put the Qeditas git repo back on github. There's also a "trdev" branch there, but I haven't started modifying anything yet:

https://github.com/trentrussell/qeditas

I'm thinking Qeditas (ocaml) can start qednet (C++) in a process. Qednet will connect up with peers and share inventory/data (this works already). Qeditas will be notified when there are new Qeditas transactions or Qeditas blocks. Qeditas can then ask qednet (via rpc commands) for the actual data which Qeditas can verify and organize (e.g., finding the "best" current block/ledger).

I should probably say that I'm not really a C++ programmer. The parts of the qednet code that didn't directly come from Clams was mostly copy-paste-modify from code in Clams. There is also some strange bug the first time I try to run qednetd. I'd expect it to make the .qednet directory and then advise the user on making a qednet.conf file. Instead the first time I run it it makes the .qednet directory and then dies with a seg fault. The second time I run it it warns that I need to -reindex. I don't actually need to -reindex (there are no blocks). Instead I run it a third time and it prompts me to make a qednet.conf file. After making the qednet.conf, I can run it a fourth time and it starts working. If this bug sounds familiar to anyone let me know.

I'm not sure any of this will work well enough to really start Qeditas, but at least it might keep the Qeditas project alive with a test network.

PS: To check if the first block is valid, I need the ctree corresponding to the initial ledger. I guess one node needs this and then it can get shared. @Bill: You posted a link to the initial distribution, but it's text files with address hashes and amounts. Do you have the ctree itself available somewhere?

I just saw this comment in the code and was quite amused.

https://github.com/nochowderforyou/clams/blob/master/src/main.cpp#L1097

By the way, I'm forking the clam code because I need a functioning p2p rumour network for something I'm trying out. I've changed the default ports and magic number, so no one running clams should notice anything. I'm open to the idea of directly integrating with the clam network in some way, but let's wait and see. I'll post something more depending on whether things are successful.

After thinking about the idea for using multisig to simulate exchanging crypto and fiat (see the link in my signature for the idea), the best way I can think to do it is in several steps.

1. A party makes an offer, including price, amount, collateral (with a specified txout), an expiration time, boundary information for the window and possible escrows.
2. A counterparty accepts the offer by determining the rest (counterparty collateral and which escrow), writing the full terms in (formal) text, signing the text, and creating a tx with the appropriate 2-of-3 tx with a hash of the contract text in the CLAMspeech. No one signs the tx yet.
3. The party accepts this by adding his/her signature of the contract text.
4. The escrow accepts this by adding his/her signature of the contract text.
Only now do the party and counterparty start signing the tx.
5. One signs the tx.
6. Another signs the tx and publishes it.

The contract text would need to specify that it's void if there's not a tx with the contract hash in the clamspeech published by time X.

Unfortunately, I can't believe very many people would prefer trading with a 6 step process over simply trusting a third party exchange. Unless this could be simplified significantly, it's probably not worth implementing.

---

On the other hand, now that I've started looking into the CLAMour code, I'm imagining other potential uses of CLAMspeech. For example, another proof-of-stake coin could be "merge staked" with clams. Suppose the other coin (which I'll call "othercoin") is also proof-of-stake using its own token. When othercoin stakers make a new block, the block header hash could be published in the CLAMspeech of a coinstake:

othercoin

For the othercoin block to be correct, the timestamp would have to be earlier than the time stamp in the Clams block where its hash was published. Also, the hashes would be required to be published in order.

An advantage of this is that someone couldn't silently make a separate long othercoin fork (since it would be visible in the Clams chain). To be more precise, they couldn't silently stake a separate othercoin history without also silently staking a separate Clams history. It would also rely on timestamps in Clams blocks to prevent attacks by falsely claiming an othercoin time in the future, unless they also attacked Clams this way at the same time.

Would there be any objection to this on the Clams side? It seems like it would give more people a reason to own and stake Clams.

The only downside I can see is that it restricts stakers from making clamour votes. It seems like "othercoin " might only take up about half the CLAMspeech, so people could still vote for some clamours by having a speech like:

clamour othercoin

PS: I now have two testnet clam nodes running. For testing, I need to be able to stake fairly regularly, so it would help if someone could send massive amounts of testnet clams to n422ULsfpah4GEJciZ1uRYMCLgFdGCpBsP and mxHPD9KUvyvezaVC87b2vFrnHaiFnB44mf. Based on the current staking weight on testnet, it looks like approximately 100,000 clams would let me stake a few times an hour.

This is a good point. It's another reason for me to step back and think more carefully about "design" issues.


I've read before that bitcoin restricted OP_RETURN to 40 bytes because this is enough for key value pairs for a distributed hash table. Maybe a feature for storing such key value pairs would be sufficient for many different purposes.

Thanks, that code is an improvement. I'd forgotten about break.

I was originally hoping to take advantage of the representation in memory of the vchID "unsigned char vector" to avoid needing to loop at all, but it became clear that the representation isn't what I hoped it was (an array).

I'm happy with the response time I've been getting from the Clam team members, so thanks to all of you for that.

Now that I have "register pubkey" I started writing support for "register escrow agent", "create contract", "trade contract" and "settle contract" -- but found I have to rethink things again. For example, I had planned to have CLAMspeech declarations like:

register escrow agent 73 USD

in which the controller of the pubkey registered to 73 indicates his/her willingness to act as an escrow agent under the given terms until the timeout.

Obviously this tx should be signed by the corresponding private key. The easiest way to enforce this is to check that the first input to the tx with the CLAMspeech came from the corresponding address. In which case the pubkey is explicitly in the tx already, and so why did it need to be registered in advance?

In other words, it's been one of those days of taking two steps back.

I did find a bit of a hackish way to check if a vector of unsigned chars is a "prefix" of a CKeyID:


This rejects the old register (since it uses the checksum instead of a prefix) and accepts the new one. As a result there's one pubkey registered. I have commands "listrpubkeys" and "getrpubkey":


The "pid" field given in response to "getrpubkey" shouldn't be there. I'll track it down later.

I'm saying "rpubkey" for "registered pubkey" to avoid confusing with ordinary public keys.

If someone has a suggestion for how I should've done it, I'd be happy to listen.

I've managed to add registration of ids to a version of clams I'm running on testnet. I've switched to having ids that are N prefix bytes of the underlying 20 byte address instead of using the checksum. In hex this is a 2N char id. An example is in tx 8690cfc9b0e40b7fb328da478e2523071ac759eea7cac729038b47b8f180948d with the clamspeech:

register pubkey 73 039df70c1c46425ae4d3be53892949e17bebcbe30f419132441faab92677b220f5

Here the given pubkey is from the address mr1yhbGu64c83LtN5GBxPVPBb7XheNi8rH, which in hex is

Version Byte: 6f
20 byte address: 732e7e8744a30f55ff7c43b77e473ff462777b43
Checksum: 8b8070fe

In principle, possible ids to register would be 73 (as above), 732e, 732e7e, etc.

I don't yet have code that correctly actually checks that the given id corresponds to a prefix of the address, so I wanted to ask (technically) how to do this.

Here's what I've found:

I can use CPubKey(ParseHex(strPubkey)) to convert "039d...f5" into a CPubKey. IsFullyValid will make sure it's a valid pubkey. GetID can be used to obtain the 20 byte address as a CKeyID (which seems to be the same as uint160).

On the other hand, I can use ParseHex on the given hex ID in the clamspeech to obtain a vector of unsigned chars. I crossed my fingers and tried to use memcmp as a way checking for a prefix, but it doesn't seem to work. Here's the current code snippet I have in main.cpp:



I'm going to try to get on the #clams channel on IRC. If successful, I'll start asking questions there. I don't want to "spam" this thread with posts that aren't of general interest. I could also start a separate thread if people think I should.

Edit: I'm now registered at irc.freenode.net with nick TrentRussell and have joined the #clams channel. I've never used irc before, but will try to use it now and try to log the channel when I'm not online.

It's amusing that this was the last post before Christmas. Nothing on Christmas. Then all hell breaks loose.

Maybe it becomes true if you repeat the quote in enough distinct posts. That's how truth works, right?

The URL was only needed in order to give the pubkey in a way that technically would match what CLAMour expects. I won't do this. I'm likely to go with the "register pubkey " approach.

I'll try to modify my copy of the clam code to have a "getpubkey" command.

I've registered an identity on testnet using CLAMour as follows:

The tx c82f27a509bf2c04ffb037f683d8259894f273f8d8f849a8e0545879d5444a2c has CLAMspeech

create clamour 1a762d2507760a436061029547245e434fa89da6e9d22cf07d6f8a6140b31f37 http://txti.es/1a762d25

The text at the link is "Testnet identity 039df70c1c46425ae4d3be53892949e17bebcbe30f419132441faab92677b220f5 (address mr1yhbGu64c83LtN5GBxPVPBb7XheNi8rH)".

The "identity" can (in a sense) be looked up using the client:


While this would work, I think it's better to separate it from CLAMour. Also, I think I shouldn't say "identity" when what I really mean is "pubkey". Here's an alternative approach:

The tx 6c08736d725217eeaf04dd3e1cc90ee17123f4361b7318fd9f68b02d87823b0b has CLAMspeech

register pubkey 8b8070fe 039df70c1c46425ae4d3be53892949e17bebcbe30f419132441faab92677b220f5

Here the hex "8b8070fe" is the 4 byte checksum of the corresponding address: mr1yhbGu64c83LtN5GBxPVPBb7XheNi8rH.

A "getpubkey" command (like "getclamour") would be helpful.

Thoughts?

I mainly need a short unambiguous way to refer to a public key, so using CLAMour for this is probably overkill. I've done some testnet tests and the next post will be about it. (It's already written, but wanted to respend to your post first.)