I agree with you, Those who do not have much financial independence, that is, those whose income is limited and very low, their gambling mentality is only to win, because they never have the mentality of losing or accepting defeat, because they can't afford to lose that money. But if you think about a rich person, he does not need money, so he never thinks only about winning, even if he loses money, there is no problem, because he has no lack of money, so there is a difference in their thinking and humanity due to their situation, and this is why a rich person is usually not addicted to gambling.

I will agree that some folks go down a wrong path and it can either take them a long time to learn or they might not be able to snap out of a kind of gambling mentality.

There is only so much that we can do but maybe try to share some of the better ideas and attempt to meet people where they are at, in the circumstances that they are interacting genuinely. 

There are likely some members who are trolls or perhaps PsyOps.. so they are not being genuine. .and sure there are some who plagiarize and use bots to write their posts,  and so sometimes it can be difficult to know if someone is actually being genuine or if he is not.

I agree with everything that you said Tungbulu, yet I get a bit worried about ideas that any of us might be aiming for perfection in either our bitcoin investing practices or our cashflow management system and practices.

There are always going to be some amount of flexibility and also some amount of personal tailoring that might not always be easy to decide about options that might be available or dilemmas that might present themselves from time to time.

We likely can try to get our bitcoin investment going directionally in a good place, and we are trying to figure out how much to invest into bitcoin and how much to keep in our back up funds and whether we should buy every week even when our cashflows might be irregular, and even when the BTC price is changing a lot we might wonder if we might want to try to time our weekly buys or if we might just buy on a certain day of the week no matter what. These are not easy decisions, since sometimes we might have a bit of an inclination in one direction or another, but then other times we have difficulties figuring out how to move forward, and we may well not want to get preoccupied about being perfect but just having some measured, meaningful and ongoing actions that allow us to stack bitcoin persistently, consistently ongoingly and perhaps even aggressively, every week... and to keep doing it for likely a whole cycle or more, unless we might be able to front load our investment, but we may well be stacking pretty aggressively for a couple of cycles before we might start to let off and change or bitcoin accumulation style.

These breakdowns are way more important when we are living them and/or practicing them. There are some guys who contribute to some of these threads who seem to be talking in theory and not actually practicing what they are writing about.  So surely when guys have experiences, they can really start to engage with the theories and even tweak their practices from time to time based on their discussions in threads like this one.  Another thing they can use some of the categories differently, but then maybe they come to realize that what they had been doing does not really fit within the category that they thought that it did.

Some times we might put our system in practice, and then we might realize that every month or maybe every couple of months, we are getting stressed out because some portion of our reserve funds is falling down to below $1k, and we had noticed that as long as it stays above $1,500, we don't really feel stress, but if it starts to go below $1,500 we get a bit nervous, but if it goes below $1k then we start to get really nervous. .. so then after we experience this for several months in a row, we decide that we are going to have to up our numbers by somewhere between $300 and $500 in order to start to feel more comfortable.  At first we decide to put it at $300 more for the next month or two and then if that resolves the issue, then we can leave it at that position for the future, but if we are still feeling more stress than we want to feel, then we are already prepared to increase it by $200 more to put it at $500 more from the original amount.  So in some sense, we have a combination of finances and emotions that are helping us to figure out our comfort level and balance.


I think that you are correct in terms of describing the situation like that, and if a person has a goal to build his emergency funds up to 3 months, he might also have side projects that are going on that he needs to fund, like you said.  It might not matter so much what we call these various funds, yet he might also end up getting himself into trouble if after a year or more of buying bitcoin, he has build his bitcoin investment up to 3-4 months of his expenses, and his emergency fund is still only 1 month, but he has various savings that he ends up spending for their designated purposes, so then that savings cannot serve as an emergency fund either.. Let's face it if push comes to shove, and you spend all of your emergency funds, then your savings might be the ONLY thing that is left and stopping you from spending your bitcoin, so it is up to you to figure out your priorities and to decide are you spending your bitcoin or are you spending from the savings that was meant to buy the birthday bicycle gift for your daughter.  you have to figure it out, and part of the problem or dilemma you got yourself into is to run out of funds in the other categories. You can decide which ever way that you like, yet part of the reason that we discuss some of these matters is so that guys can hopefully figure out ways to better establish systems and practices to help themselves and to lessen the chances that they are going to put themselves in a dilemma that they would not want to be in.. yet when they get to that spot, they are the ONLY one who can decide from which funds are they going to spend first.. .

I would think in the majority of cases it is not good to start out investing into bitcoin aggressively unless you already have a lot of investing experience and/or you are a fast learner when it comes to what would be a good approach to quickly getting a decently large position in bitcoin.

Most people are better off to hold back a bit in the very beginning and put some kind of a reasonable bitcoin accumulation plan into practice, so for example, a guy with $100k investment portfolio might want to get his bitcoin allocation to 15%, which would be $15k, so maybe he decides to invest around $1k per week for the next 15 weeks (3.5 months), and then to reassess at that time.  There are other ways to exercise some conservativism in the beginning and surely a lot of folks might not be sure about what is their total budget and/or their discretionary income, so a guy who pretty much knows that he could invest $100 per week without having any problems, he might purposefully decide to start out at $30 per week while he is assessing the situation and then when he becomes more comfortable, he might increase his weekly investment amounts... maybe after a few weeks of studying the matter.

Poor people might have ONLY a very narrow path of opportunities to get out of poverty, and if they spend several years building up something like a bitcoin portfolio, and then they end up screwing up their investment because of their own slopiness they might not be able to recover again... so there could be some poor persons who had spent one or two cycles building up his bitcoin holdings and he does not have much if any of an emergency fund, but then an emergency comes and his whole bitcoin is wiped out because his bitcoin was serving as his emergency fund. .and maybe if the BTC price is down at the same time as the emergency, he might never be able to recover from what he ended up losing.  Sometimes also just a bit of cash can get someone over the rough periods and to prevent a bad situation from becoming even worse because the onhand cash was able to cover the expenses until the person got back on course and started earning an income and/or maybe resolved some expenses.

When you are building up the amount that you invested in bitcoin to be at least 3 months of your expenses, then during those times, you may well be in position in which it is preferable to build up the emergency fund and the bitcoin holdings at around the same pace, yet once your bitcoin reaches more than 3 months or more that you have put in of your expenses (it might have had grown through bitcoin appreciation too), then you are likely going to be putting your bitcoin at risk if you are letting your emergency fund have less than 3 months - including 1 month of your expenses seems really risky, even though surely guys are free to judge their own situation and to figure out their risk levels.  So many poor people get themselves into trouble because they fail/refuse to build anything close to a sufficient back up funds system, and then their bitcoin end up serving as their back up funds, which ends up leading to their having to sell some or all of their bitcoin at a time that was not of their own choosing, even when they could have had engaged in reasonable levels of back up funds that would have had saved them from such situation, so they end up having fun staying poor... and perhaps never being able to get back to the bitcoin position that they could have had or should have had with the establishment, keeping and maintaining of a bit more preventative precautionary measures in place, and adequate back up funds is one of them and not overdoing and/or shitcoining and/or trading (gambling) with their bitcoin is another those good practice measures that are likely even more important for poor people.

I like it as the identity of the founder remains unknown, for many competitor's would have done everything within their power to make sure that Bitcoin would never exist anymore and even if it does, it won't be as popular as this, because Blockchain was made up through the creation of Bitcoin, which other cryptocurrencies uses Blockchain but Bitcoin is remains number one, which it won't be irreplaceable by any other coin's, because Bitcoin has done more good in people's lives and if the founder of Bitcoin was known, it would have be easier for the government to be part of it, either by negotiating with the founder or they stop the founder from functioning.

Even if aspects of bitcoin evolve over time, that does not necessarily mean that we need to change our approach to bitcoin, even if we are studying bitcoin and trying to consider the extent to which bitcoin's investment thesis might change with the passage of time.

If we are in our BTC accumulation phase, we might decide if we want to invest more aggressively or more whimpily, yet that has to do more with our own finances and psychology rather than bitcoin, since bitcoin as compared with other investments is only one of the factors to consider.

Changes in bitcoin might affect how we hold  it or protect it or transact with it, but it might not affect if we are in accumulation phase, maintenance phase or perhaps in sustainable withdrawal phase.   

Over the past 11.5 years that I have been in bitcoin, I have made most of my changes based on my own circumstances, and sure aspects of bitcoin might have affected me on the margins (and in small sort of ways), but nothing really major since bitcoin's investment thesis has just gotten stronger through the years, even if some aspects of bitcoin has changed along the way too.

Yes. It is a good habit to keep track of wallets, especially the ones with larger transactions connected with them... And it can take a bit of time to figure out some organized way to keep track..... maybe keeping track of the colder storage or medium storage might be more important, and maybe the hot wallets might have more transactions and harder to keep track, so guys have to figure out if they are able to keep track of everything or just the transactions within certain wallets.

Some people suggest that the tax treatment of transactions to treat them as capital rather than currency can cause some accounting burdens which can disincentivize spending bitcoin or conducting smaller transactions... yet surely if a wallet is divided into accounts, then at least the accounts could be of certain categories including if you have an exchange that you use, then you might send all of the transaction from that exchange to the same account, so then at least you know that the transactions are related to that exchange within that account.

You are contradicting yourself.  You sai that it is important to plan your investment before investing in bitcoin but not to take extra time.

Most likely to get started in bitcoin, there is a need to merely have a superficial perspective of bitcoin, yet more importantly we have to know whether we have discretionary income or not.  Once we get started we can learn and adjust our position size in accordance with our knowledge and confidence about bitcoin and also the strength of our cashflow management.  There is nothing wrong with learning as we go and hopefully building additional conviction after we learn more about bitcoin.  Getting started right away is important yet surely even if someone knows that he has $10 to buy bitcoin right away, he may also have to figure out from where he is going to source his bitcoin, and there could be more than one source location, yet he still has to start out with one at a time, and with any new activity, it can take a bit of time to incorporate in someones life and perhaps to be able to start to appreciate that the commitment should be for 4-10 years or longer, yet in the very first purchase, there might not need to be any commitment to 4-10 years or longer, even through ultimately it would be better for anyone to come to that kind of a 4-10 years or longer commitment so that they are understanding how they might approach their bitcoin accumulation practices and also how they might approach their cashflow management practices..

Well many times we go back and forth in threads and we might not be clear about definitions, and surely there can be ways that guys can figure out how to be as aggressive as they can without overdoing it, yet if they develop systems in which they are categorizing their funds, then they might get some better handle on managing their own finances.

Managing finances becomes even more important for any of us who might have had decided to invest into something like bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer and we might have goals to try to accumulate as much bitcoin as we are able to accumulate, but we do not necessarily want to make mistakes of overdoing it.

So, yeah, sometimes we might not agree upon the terms - even if we might not disagree with some of the objectives.. even though surely every guy has to figure out his own objectives, since he is going to be responsible for figuring out how much to invest into bitcoin and how to manage his cashflows, and if he ends up screwing up and he says that he was following some suggestions from the internet, then no one is going to help him out if he ends up not figuring out his own balances, and hopefully when we are batting around ideas on threads like this, guys get better ideas in regards to how to manage their own situations better and even in their sharing of their ideas and experiences, they can frequently help other guys to figure out their own establishment of boundaries... whether bitcoin investment amounts or boundaries in terms of how much to put into their various back up funds.

Sometimes we will also give examples, and I frequently like to talk about $100 per week invested into bitcoin, yet surely in nigeria guys might have to adjust that down to $10 per week or maybe $30 to $50 per week, yet that might not even be very good for them, if they are not considering the rest of their finances and psychology, so guys have to adjust the numbers to their own circumstances, and surely if they are brand new, they may well have to start out a bit more conservatively while they are getting used to buying $20 worth of bitcoin every week.. which can feel like a lot of learning at first, but then after a while they may well start to get used to it and better understand the various terms and the reason that we might want to break down our back up funds into emergency funds and reserve funds and the idea of float can also be something that is helpful to discuss.

And, yeah, when we talk about cashflow management, and there can be guys who already are doing it, but they might not use the same terms. When we talk about the needs to have better cashflow management because of bitcoin, there may not be experiences investing into something so volatile, so they have to get used to it, and even going through the experience to figure out how they are going to manage their temptations to sell too much too soon or their temptations to stop accumulating BTC when the BTC price goes up, even though they are still in their earliest of stages of BTC accumulation.


Of course, there are differences in how it plays out depending on which category is being discussed or considered.  Guys might end up making mistakes thinking that we are talking about one category or framework and they misinterpret the framework, and so there still are needs for ownership and thinking through their plans to make sure that they understand the reasons for certain kinds of limitations, yet in the end they are the ones who need to understand and apply the limitations for themselves so that they don't end up overdoing it.. and surely there could be some guys who are very confused, yet if they start out more conservatively, then they may well be able to increase their level of aggressiveness as they become more confident, yet  at the same time, they still could end up making mistakes, so it is god for the them to really practice and to even play around with some of the ideas until they really start to understand how to apply various kinds of practices that we discuss in these various bitcoin investment related threads...and yeah, of course, some guys come to bitcoin and they already have other investment experience, which should be helpful to them, but sometimes they can still make mistakes by trying to apply similar practices to bitcoin, which might not work out very well for them to misapply some of the concepts or even to think that they know more than the do merely because they have investment experience in other areas.

By the way, I recall when I started investing in bitcoin in late 2013, I had some interactions on a forum about bitcoin, and I had already had 20 years of investment experience at that time (yet all of that investment experience was outside of bitcoin), yet I still had to learn how to apply those things that I knew (or though that I knew) to bitcoin, and I ended up learning a lot from my experience after I came to bitcoin and adding bitcoin to my experiences, and even some of the kinds of ways that I applied things were different since bitcoin was a different kind of asset with  various kind of ramifications throughout all parts of society and crossing over into many disciplines..   I feel that I am still learning various aspect of bitcoin and even bitcoin is not exactly staying the same, either.    It is an evolving kind of a dynamic, and lots of the world is still just in their earliest of stages of learning about bitcoin..

A lot is happening in the world today, especially in the online world, and it's quite unfortunate that scamming people have become very normal amongst youths in some part of the world and they even consider it as a source of livelihood, some even have some kind of schools where people go to learn how to do fraud, and thus why it's important to always monitor our kids' online activities and make sure that they don't get corrupted by these bad eggs in the society. Very soon, the fight against online scams would be way more serious that what we see today and those who are involved will definitely have serious penalties melted on them, and the least we could do is protect our young ones, and even when we find out that our kids are already involved, it's crucial to educate them, advice them and lead them towards a more better path.