Spend some more time around here, and you'll slowly start to realize that this just isn't true.

It's almost completely parallel to the old gold rush adage that it's better to sell the shovels than to mine the gold. That's essentially what you described above. But it has practically zero effect on market price.

The topic of coins "hoarded" by miners indefinitely...sure, that does play an indirect role on the market price. But the whole "price vs. hash rate" discussions here are typically way off the mark.

^^This, and end thread.

The biggest part of the problem is shown in this very thread; people are not doing the research to even see the forecast for how much this 1 GH/s will mine. That's ultimately what it boils down to.

I'm not understanding how people continue to flock to cloud mining, or BTC mining at all.

It seems that there's no use in even trying to explain this to people on this forum.

Not to mention all of the "price will follow hashrate" comments. But please, yes - all of you should go buy more coins right now because the hashrate is continually rising.

I agree with #3 above.

With #4, I think it's best to not frame bitcoin's price rising relative to last year's ATH, which was potentially generated out of the beginnings of the ultimate Goxxing - I think it just needs to slowly rise in a less volatile fashion.

Hopefully more volume brings this, but maybe it won't.

No, it doesn't.

I'm fairly sure that Mat is not sure of the HODL strategy in the slightest.

Agreed.

I wish their was a 'Rather' app for this forum for posts containing "manipulation" and "what caused the price to _____."

Fonzie: One of the best candidates to go on anyone's ignore list.

This. This is the real, sensible answer.

Add to the fact that the coins are typicially just immediately dumped, and it's a no-brainer.

TERA, your posts of late have been epic slow trolls.

It's like guerrilla Proudhon tactics. Well done.

You're doing it again.

There's a perfectly parallel example to what you just described - buying X amount of coins, but only trading a small ratio of them.

Psychologically it may seem to be a benefit to you personally in the area of mitigating risk. But if you never break even on the original capital (plus electricity), it's a bad investment in hindsight. And I do understand where you're coming from; I have a 2 m/hash Scrypt rig that's been online since early December. And I live in a state that has some of the lowest electricity rates in the USA. The electricity costs are not negligible.

*Edit -Obviously the most redeeming quality of Scrypt mining on a PC is that the components have quality resale value. It definitely has that going for it.

Such translate, much irrelevant.

Only in the same sense that having dollars that can be used to buy bitcoin on an exchange which is then exchanged for many different coins lets you speculate on many different coins.

I don't think that anybody is bashing mining here. The point is to drive home the principle of whether or not the initial investment capital could have yielded more wealth by simply buying coins.

Scrypt mining doesn't give any more flexibility to get moar coinz than does buying them with bitcoin. It might be enjoyable, it might be a good way to learn more about building a PC, etc. But it doesn't necessarily afford any benefits over buying coins. Especially since GPUs suck a lot of electricity, which also has to be factored into opportunity cost. Even the electricity used by ASIC gear is not negligible in the calculation.

Your "prediction" is a bitcoin price of $40,000 in December 2014.

If you believe this, you're pumping every last cent of the fiat currency of your choice into bitcoin, yes?

Gotcha. And that is a good piece of advice.

The reason I asked about orders not triggering in your own personal trading is this - you started out trading with roughly $20K USD, correct? That is in my opinion a good chunk to trade with.

I'm genuinely curious if you had ever considered making a larger number of "micro" trades on the swings (referring to going long), as opposed to holding out for longer periods, thus generating more risk.

But I suppose if orders don't get triggered, that's only really a viable strategy if one can sit in front of a computer 16 hours a day.

Threads like these just completely ruin this community.

OP, show proof that you're selling everything you own to buy bitcoins to put your bitcoins where your mouth is, or gtfo.

Mat, have you ever gotten screwed out of a stop-loss order on any of the exchanges?

I believe the community is becoming more immune to these constant "China's going to ban bitcoin" scares.

You can feel the change in sentiment; this shit just doesn't concern people as much as it did three months ago. Which is a good thing.

But as odolvlobo points out very clearly, the gains come from holding those coins, not from mining them.

And since the majority buy their rigs in fiat, it begs the question of why one wouldn't just buy and hold bitcoin, as opposed to mining.

I agree.

And the current ruling makes even less sense from the mining standpoint. Very obnoxious policy.