If someone's aim is to make a lot (as in a LOT) of money from BTC, I reckon the ship has sailed.  By 'someone' I refer to those on average or below incomes.

Example, I was going to invest $5000 in BTC in 2017, like a FOOL (with hindsight) I thought it was too expensive so I didn't.  That would have bought me 3.4 BTC, worth $193,800 today if I'd held on to them.

However if I invest $5000 today, that only gets me 0.087 BTC.  So if my calculations are correct, for my investment to rise even to $50,000, BTC has to rise in value to $570,000 i.e. ten-fold.  And to reach a value of $100,000 BTC would need to reach $1,140,000.  Whilst many predict BTC will rise to these values, I'm not too sure.  And if it does, to realise a genuinely large ROI, unless you've already invested earlier you increasingly need to be in a position to inject large sums of cash into BTC.  Doing something like a dollar cost averaging approach of $250 - $500 a month from now isn't going to cut it.  Yes you'll obviously get returns if BTC continues to rise, but not significant returns in the true sense.

Unless you're rich now, you no longer have the sums to inject into BTC that will see you get a good return, unless it crashes at some point enabling average/low earners to buy in.  However you're then dependent on it rising again.

The ban was brought in via our FCA:

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/fca-bans-sale-crypto-derivatives-retail-consumers

To be fair to my bank, I've not yet tried to move money to a broker or any other route that might suggest 'this customer is buying crypto' so I can't comment yet as to whether they would block my account.  However I'd rather find legitimate ways to avoid even highlighting this to them.

I'm in the UK.  Buying crypto isn't banned, however trading is.  I think what's happening is banks are seeing transactions on someone's account e.g. transfer to Coinbase, and whether it's an automatic (e.g. picked up by software) or human interaction, the account might then be blocked as the bank assumes the account holder is trading crypto.  I've also heard of people hitting difficulties when trying to arrange a mortgage/re-mortgage if transactions such as Coinbase are showing up on statements.  There are ways around the latter e.g. just don't move money for a few months prior to arranging the mortgage (banks only ask for 1-3 months previous statements) however I reckon the only way to avoid my raising suspicion with my bank is to transfer money to a third party and then buy my crypto from that source. 

I would tend to agree with this.  Like any type of investing, no one actually knows the future of markets or they'd be even richer than they already are.  Yes, some markets track upwards over time like global index funds, and Bitcoin might do the same.  However, I'm unsure if some of the predicted future values can actually be realised.  People predicting it'll rise to a million come 2030, MMmm I'm not sure.  Although Bitcoin is the daddy of crypto at present, it doesn't necessarily follow it'll stay that way.  And, if those gains come to fruition, unless the average investor gets in very soon, Bitcoin will surely become the preserve of the rich due to the values it'll be trading at.  At $1,000,000, an investment of $10,000 would get you 0.01 and for your investment to double Bitcoin would then need to realise $2,000,000.  Yes there would still be dips, however if it reaches those heights even in the dips it would still be trading at hundreds of thousands (unless it practically crashed) so would still be out of reach to most in terms of holding a decent % of a coin.

I'm in the UK, where I understand it's not illegal to buy and own crypto, however it's illegal to trade?  That doesn't bother me as my intention would be to buy and sit on my investment, trading in that sense doesn't interest me.  What I'd ideally like to do is:

1.  Create account with a reputable broker that allows you to retain your own keys (I'd want to go the offline wallet route.)
2.  Transfer money from my bank account to the broker, perhaps on a monthly basis to cover my dollar cost averaging buying strategy.
3.  When I then want to buy, I'd already have funds with the broker, so I'd be free to buy and sell within that environment.

I do still have some concerns, not sure to what extent these are founded, because you see stories online of people (within the UK and other countries where it's legal to buy crypto) having their bank accounts frozen when it's discovered they're transferring money to a crypto broker.  The account holder often has to go through a protracted process to get their account unlocked.  So I'm not sure if my above process could still present challenges for me?

I want to invest in crypto, however I don't want to rock the boat with my traditional bank account as it runs all my financial activities!

And I seem to be struggling to find a broker that allows you to hold your own keys?  I don't want to use a broker that holds the keys, surely that increases your risk of losing your investment?

What frustrates me around some of this is the way smaller scale retail investors are being partially or fully blocked by their banks from transacting in crypto.  Whilst it can be argued some of this is for good reasons (e.g. stopping credit card transactions to protect the consumer from unsustainable debt) the fact some are seeing standard bank and debit card transfers being blocked to me isn't fair.  As usual, it stinks of try to stop the average person from being in on the game, however those with money and financial teams to help them can apparently buy huge sums of crypto without issue.

Yes I know there are ways to circumvent the banks, however perhaps with credit card transactions aside, there should be no blocks to smaller retail consumers investing in crypto if they so wish.  We could go from a scenario in which Bitcoin was still a viable investment for smaller investors but blocked and/or illegal to trade in, to a scenario where banks and countries gradually accept crypto transactions but by then Bitcoin could be an unviable investment for smaller investors e.g. if it continues to increase rapidly in value.  Although none of us have a crystal ball, a year from now Bitcoin might be sitting at $200k, so even a $1k investment will only get you 0.005 Bitcoin.

Not sure if my post entirely makes sense, in a nutshell I'm saying traditional banks and countries have tried to stop investment in Bitcoin, however if sufficient numbers of legitimate big players invest they might change their tune, but by then the boat has largely passed for the smaller investor.  Unless there were significant dips thereafter during which the smaller investor could get in, there's little point, unless you have quite significant sums to pump in.

My story is I'm not afraid of cryptocurrency, however I'm afraid of the potential repercussions of buying/trading it due to the positions taken by banking institutions.  For example I can see the logic in banks preventing the use of credit cards for retail customers buying crypto, however I'm seeing quite a few stories of people having their bank accounts locked, mortgage applications refused etc when it's discovered they hold or trade crypto.  Whilst I understand there are ways to circumvent this, my further concern (e.g. if I apply for a remortgage at some point) is this being discovered and my application being refused.  We're living through transitional times where banks are trying to prevent their customers from buying/trading crypto (done to protect the customer from themselves they say) however I think a large part of this is banks obviously want to protect the status quo (fiat etc) and they don't know how to react to all this crypto stuff.

So my fear isn't of the actual products, it's of what the repercussions could be for me with regard to fiat banks and being considered a safe / low risk customer.

And it's frustrating me as I think it will ultimately stop me investing

OMG, worth $375 million if he still had them today!

I hope he's managed to come to terms with it, I'd struggle!!

... how many coins could be mined in a day on a standard home PC?

I saw a guy being interviewed on a news channel the other day about Bitcoin.  Assuming he's telling the truth, he said he stumbled across Bitcoin in the very early days when it could easily be mined with a basic computer.  He said he was easily mining up to 50 coins a day but, given these were very early days for crypto, he didn't really know what he was mining (as in what they could be used for, potential value etc) so he placed no importance on it whatsoever.  So much so, he didn't retain the keys for many of his earlier coins

He said he got back into it a few years back and is now a lot more careful about the crypto he has.  The guy could very likely have been a multi-millionaire by now.  Not sure if he's mining these days (doubt it) or buying/trading.

I find it surreal in a way that you can be sitting today deciding 'do I buy 1 coin for $50k?' whilst only a decade ago you could have been mining dozens of them, essentially for free, on your home PC!  Yeah I know that's all with the benefit of hindsight, however it makes me smile nevertheless.

I wish I'd stumbled across it 10 years ago!

Guys, I think I might be okay to buy crypto even via my bank but could do with your advice.  It appears as though my country hasn't banned crypto outright.  Read this especially the bit I've put in bold:

... has banned the sale of cryptocurrency derivatives products to retail investors ... the regulator declared that the sale, marketing, and distribution of any derivatives including contracts for difference, options, futures, and exchange-traded notes (ETNs) by any local or foreign company is banned.  The Authority said derivatives based on digital assets like bitcoin (BTC) or ethereum (ETH) are ill-suited for retail consumers due to the harm they pose ... the ban does not affect the trading of virtual currencies such as bitcoin, which are not regulated by the Authority ...

And this:

... you can still buy Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.  The Authority isn’t stopping people buying bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies directly, but it’s banning the sale of products which track cryptocurrency prices.  These include unregulated transferable cryptoassets which are tokens but not “specified investments” or e-money ...

Both extracts are from reputable websites not just someone's random blog.  In my ignorance I had thought 'derivatives' covered the basic buying of bitcoin, ethereum etc, however if I'm reading the above correctly, I can legally still buy within my country, would you agree based on the above?

Note my plan would basically be to buy crypto over maybe 24-36 months using dollar cost average approach then sit on it for x years.  I'm not interested in regularly trading crypto or using it for other purposes e.g. buying stuff.  I think however I still need to be cautious around my bank as I've read some people have run into difficulties, even though it's only credit card transactions the bank has banned.  I'm also reading some horror stories when people try to get a property mortgage or remortgage.  Some banks are rejecting applications when they discover the applicant holds crypto

Also, sorry if a stupid question, if I simply intend to buy crypto and sit on it, can I complete buying transactions with the likes of Kraken?

Thank you all for your replies to my questions.  On further investigation, it appears as though the authority responsible for financial activity in my country has indeed banned the buying and selling of cryptocurrency for retail consumers.  The likes of eToro is registered in my country with the authority and their terms indicate cryptocurrency transactions with customers from my country will not be fulfilled, so I can't for example use eToro.  It's slightly confusing (hence why LOTS of research is required beforehand) in that many companies still seem to advertise the buying and selling of cryptocurrency for consumers in my country, stating the transaction can be completed via credit or debit card.  For many (most) consumers, this is simply no longer possible.  In short, the buying advice on many websites seems to be outdated for my country.  No doubt I could try it and see if I'm successful (lucky), however I don't want to risk my bank account in this way.

So it looks as though my options will be limited to first transferring my funds to a third party as suggested in your replies e.g. Bank > Revolut > Exchange or to consider P2P.  I know I'm stating the obvious here, however i want to identify the most secure and straightforward way to buy cryptocurrency without unnecessarily alerting my bank.

It's interesting because some experts in the financial sector have suggested my countries outright ban on crypto is unwise, because it moves investors away from legitimate platforms such as eToro onto platforms that may offer less security, because investors still want to invest in crypto and will look for ways to circumvent the national ban.

Hi All

I'm new to the forum although have been lurking for a while!  Hoping to start my crypto investment journey this year.

As part of my investigations into starting up, I've discovered my bank (which I don't want to leave) has banned its customers from using credit cards for crypto exchange and broker transactions.  On further investigation it seems debit card transactions are also increasingly being blocked.  Some customers have had their accounts closed which I obviously want to avoid, especially if this then affects things like credit ratings.

This got me thinking and I'd be grateful if those more knowledgeable than me could answer my questions below

1.  Brokers such as eToro trade in more than crypto e.g. stocks, currencies.  So if I transferred money directly from my bank to a company such as eToro, is this likely to be flagged as a banned company from my banks perspective, or is my transaction likely to go through without any queries?  Also, if eToro is then transferring funds back into my bank account, is this likely to be queried?  I'm wondering if my bank has the right (I think they probably do?) to ask what I'll be using eToro for and/or what the incoming eToro funds were generated from.  If that question was posed to me, I wouldn't want to misinform them by saying 'oh it was trading in stocks' when in reality it came from trading in crypto.

2.  To avoid this, am I better to use something like PayPal for my crypto transactions?

3.  If you're comfortable sharing this information, what method do you use for your outgoing and incoming crypto transactions?

Thanks all