That’s true if miners put it in their block i’ll have to download it no matter what no way around that. But from what i read Knots’ strict mempool policy helps at the relay stage by cutting down a lot of junk TX before they even reach my node. so bandwidth savings still exist even if block downloads can’t be avoided.

3. If you bother to run full node (without putting major limit to internet usage), AFAIK the bandwidth difference would be very small that most people wouldn't notice.

Do you mind telling us the real practical benefits?

The strength of that argument depends on what "easier" means.

In my opinion, the argument becomes strong if "easier" means "less costful for the nodes", not "easier for the data publishers". This is the case if you use OP_RETURN instead of the more costly "fake public keys" method known by NFT platforms like Bitcoin Stamps.

Reducing the costs for node operators should be paramount, because the lower that cost, the higher the degree of possible decentralization of the network.

Or to re-phrase it: if you can't avoid data storage, try data publishers to use the least harmful way for the nodes.

For all other points @achow101 has already provided an excellent answer.

As I posted in another related threads, I have however some reservations against the "total liberation" of the OP_RETURN limit in one single step. It is the easiest way to make that move and it seems to have been already decided, but as this discussion was very politized and generated a lot of drama, I am worried of some potential "revenge attack" once Core 30 gets published. A (standardness) limit to a single OP_RETURN of 512 or 1024 bytes and lifting in further versions would limit the potential of these possible attacks, without harming the "commitment" use case (of course: if somebody wants to attack, he can simply pay the miners, just like now). But of course as datacarriersize is still there every node can decide to set it to a value in that range.

You don't sound confused.

Sure you might have to practice with the ideas for a while and put such ideas into practice within your own life - without being flippant about it, and surely, you might be able to learn to take bitcoin and your cashflow seriously and even learn about bitcoin (and your own self - finances and psychology) along your journey into building up a bitcoin stash and strengthening your cashflow management systems and practices.  And, yeah, all of what you do may or may not end up improving your life and giving you more options by investing into bitcoin as compared to not investing into bitcoin, as you noted that possibility to be part of the mix of things that could end up happening in your life.  

You could make all kinds of great plans, and have everything going for you, and the next thing you know, you got hit by a bus and kilt.  You also could try to figure out some balance, and maybe you get hit by the bus and maybe you don't, and if you end up putting yourself in a better position 4-10 years down the road due to your balanced practices that involve investing, reasonably improved cashflow management practices and some kind of balanced consumption, then yeah, you may or may not be in a better place due to your various efforts.. and bitcoin may or may not be $1-10 million in 10 years.. .it could be ONLY $20k..  

You don't really know the future or the various outcomes, and what outcomes might be more likely than other outcomes, even though if you educate yourself on various matters related to the world, money bitcoin and other topics that might affect you, then you may well be able to put yourself in better positions that you are able to fit into a variety of possibilities, yet how you deal with these matters is in your hands, and what you consider would be the better ways to prepare yourself for a variety of future scenarios would also be within areas that you likely could control.

These are matters that are on you to figure out the various kinds of preparations in regards to attempting to control things that you are able to control and accounting for various possibilities of things that could come at you from things that you either cannot control or that you might only be able to partially control.   There is a mixed bag in life and some folks start out with better tools in their bag, and others are able to acquire some of the better tools along the way to improve their situation at various points along the way, even if there are a lot of challenges in the world and even some bad things going on too.

Yea, even as we opine for a gradual stacking of stash, using your discretionary, i think it's not also out of place if one gets a little bit of fun too since one can't leave Live generally without giving oneself a treat sometimes. Live should be lived to the fullest. Some stash been accumulated, a little fun been grabbed alongside too wouldn't cause harm. Thats why the discretionary is highly recommended for accumulation, becauce, haven taking care of basic necessities, the left over at hand is your discretionary. What you use it for becomes your will. You can either decide to spend it on drinks at the bar, or some pizza or cigarettes, it's up to you and it's nothing. But at the same time, you can also decide to accumulate Bitcoin with it in fragments weekly or monthly as the case may be.

If you decide to spend it on self and pleasure, you get to enjoy it now and find out in the next 10-20 years or so, you have nothing solid in terms of finance or investments. But on the other hand, if you decide to invest some fraction of the same discretionary funds in Bitcoin, while still grabing little fun, at a long run, you must have saved or invested something tangible if your investment lasted for years(let's say 4-10 years or more).

Bitcoin has proven over the years to be a store of value and worth. Even though we might not predict perfectly where bitcoin would be in coming weeks, months or years, but the assurance of appreciation stands great. Imagine the price or value of Bitcoin in that last 10-15 ago, and check where it is now. You can see for yourself. Then imagine where it will be in the next 10 years or more. Sincerely, Bitcoin is going global, and we will only be fair to ourselves if we grab some Bitcoin to ourselves from our discretionary income and Hodl, even as we also think of having some fun too. We can't possibly miss out in any.

Already now and before any discussion started a very significant portion of hashpower had already removed the limit completely.  Which means anyone can just already embed whatever, the only reason your attacker would delay is because they're trying to contribute to a false and malicious attack that their action was somehow enabled by the newer software when the reality is that they can just do it right now. I don't mean via inscriptions (which, of course, also works), but just via op_return.

This is the product of having limits that are actively irrational for miners to impose, they'll go dig them out and when they do so they're are not likely to expend a lot of time balancing concerns.  Policy can be useful but it doesn't stand against economic demand.

Of course, it would be nice to deny dishonest enemies of Bitcoin that misinformation opening.  Unfortunately, since a big reason to make the change is to make relay and mining more consistent again in order to stop screwing up block propagation/etc. they need to actually be made consistent.  Imposing a 250 byte limit while significant miners impose no limit doesn't achieve that end.

Similar, the alternatives to using op_return such as fake pubkeys or inscriptions also have no such limit.  So to the extent that the reason for removing the limit is because it's better for the network to use op_returns than other means, that isn't helped by limiting op_return.  The people behind the opposition know this, or otherwise they'd propose a consensus change to just preclude larger opreturns--  that limit would actually work in the sense that it couldn't be bypassed by miners, but it would be outright harmful since it would just divert usage to fake pubkeys or other more harmful approach.

So really it doesn't make logical sense increase the limit less [1], it wouldn't even be a narrative win because people would just jump on these logical inconsistencies.  And since the opposition is heavily relying on misinformation and outright lies, they'd probably *still* do the same attack and claim it was a result of the change-- clearly they can convince a lot of people with arguments to emotion that simply disregard the facts.


[1] technically it's still limited, but the limit is the same as the size for a standard transaction.

The cycle has changed since the bitcoin ETF was approved but it is not completely broken, and it is still too early to say it is broken. We need to wait at least until the year ends, and if bear season doesn't come, we can confirm that the old cycle is no longer accurate.

Cryptocurrency regulation and institutional involvement is the assurance to the market that it has become much safer. But in my opinion, that is not enough to guarantee that the market will not collapse the way in the past. It will all depend on what caused the bear season, and if it was a black swan, such as a recession. The market will collapse in the same way, even more severely than in the past.

You’re absolutely right, discretionary income is quite discrete which is why it’s something that we can easily afford to do whatever we feel like doing with our discretionary income, it’s quite our own responsibility to decide whatever we feel it’s comfortable for us to deal with it, an individual can always choose to gamble with it with playing whatever they feel like doing with their discretionary income and they can also choose to save the money somewhere in the bank that will not have any future interest unlike bitcoin that we would have opportunities for future interest, Some individuals save them as fiat money and also be thinking of having fun with their discretionary income, like buying expensive clothes and shoes and also buying cars and living an expensive lifestyle, or be clubbing with their discretionary income, but the truth is that Bitcoin doesn’t stop and individual from living their life or probably be enjoying their life as they feel like doing or doing whatever that makes them happy like going for basketball games or soccer games, but it’s important and necessary for an individual to consider his life choices and decision, because there will be a time where we would definitely have to think about the choices that we have made when we were younger and then when we get older what would have become our decision and choices that we made when we were young, so using our discretionary income with something reasonable like buying and investing into bitcoin which would be a good decision for a lifetime.

However we know there are people who can constantly have a discretionary income and have this basic expenses but we should consider not making a mistakes that will affect our lives in a long term, and also we can try to strike a balance with our lifestyle and our basic expenses because investing in bitcoin doesn’t stop us from having a good fun life, which is why we are investing in bitcoin with our discretionary income and we can possibly have control of this funds instead of the money to control our decisions, as an individual I can possibly consider buying bitcoin with my discretionary income instead of appreciating whichever possible lifestyle and might seems like we are throwing money away, then we can decide to invest with some of this discretionary income, because we might not possibly invest all our discretionary income, but if I decide to invest with all my discretionary income and I know it’s sustainable that is also quite good, then as an investor I can decide to invest in bitcoin for one or two circles depending on my lifetime goals and plans which will be a better decision of holding bitcoin for a long term, instead of throwing our discretionary income into something that would seems like we’re wasting our money on unnecessary spending and then we are making mistakes, well I must say right now that I’m in my accumulation journey I shouldn’t be having any time to appreciate lifestyle choices, instead I would prioritize buying more bitcoin and doing it more aggressively with caution.

Recently, there have been some different views from analysts about the duration of the bull run. Some of them claimed that the Bull run is over and we might be entering another bear market. While others believe that the bull market is not yet over and might last till next year. These arguments are not the reason for this discussion.

Before this bull run, there were diverse predictions about the price Bitcoin would reach. The most popular one was $100k and others also felt it would go above that amount. Bitcoin's ATH stands at $124,290.93.

In your own view, do you think Bitcoin performed below or above your expectations in this bull run?     

Several countries have either established or are considering the creation of strategic Bitcoin reserves:

Amongst the established Bitcoin Reserves:

• El Salvador: In September 2021, El Salvador became the first country to adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender. Since then, the Government has accumulated approximately 5,940 bitcoins, valued at around $582 million as of November 2024. They perform both open market purchases (they are buying one bitcoin per day since) and mining operations.
• Bhutan: The Kingdom of Bhutan has been mining Bitcoin using its hydroelectric resources since 2019. More info can be read here : Bhutan Built A Bitcoin Mine On The Site Of Its Failed' Education City.
  As of November 2024, Bhutan holds about 12,211 bitcoins worth over $1 billion.
  Contrary to other nations, Bhutan has been quite active in the market, regularly selling the Bitcoin they mined

Some other nations have proposed to instate a domestic SBR:

• Brazil: In November 2024, Brazilian Congressman Eros Biondini, a Brazilian Congressman, proposed a bill to create a Sovereign Strategic Reserve of Bitcoins (RESBit). The proposal involved buying Bitcoin up to 5% of Brazil's international reserves. The initiative seeks to reduce the fluctuation of Brazilian real estate in order to protect the economy and develop resilience.
• Poland: Presidential candidate Sławomir Mentzen has advocated for the establishment of a strategic Bitcoin reserve, along with implementing crypto-friendly regulations to attract investment and increase financial flexibility.
  https://talkimg.com/images/2024/12/09/p5aUZ.png
• Russia: Anton Tkachev has proposed accumulating cryptocurrencies in the state treasury, viewing digital assets as potential alternatives to the US dollar in international transactions and tackling the sanctions. Russia has been a heavy gold buyer during the last few years.
  Russian Lawmaker Proposes Creating Strategic Bitcoin Reserve: Report
   

Yes... so many traders either think that they are smart or that they can figure out how to trade in a way that is more profitable than if they had not fucked around with trading, when the facts of the matter remains that trading is ultimately a losing game for an overwhelming majority of normies.. so it remains way better to presume an inability to beat the market than presumptively expecting that you have any meaningful odds of beating it, especially when dealing with one of the best if not the best of assets that man has seen (namely bitcoin), so instead of remaining and accumulating value within a sure bet (or a pretty damned good bet), way too many normies fantasize that they can do even better by selling high and buying back lower, and it is a pretty rare trader that actually is able to beat  a bitcoin investor who had mostly focused on accumulating and holding.. especially the longer the timeline the more likely that a trader has not even come close to the level of returns of holding and accumulating bitcoin, and really why would you?  You have a sure bet (or pretty damned good bet) by buying bitcoin and you want to be smart ass and think that you can do better, and what you going to do?  Tell others that they can do better also.  What a bunch of nonsense.

By the way dominance is a dumb metric, and shows that you ar likely distracted into dumb things, including shitcoins, and yeah guys try to get in and out of shitcoins, since they are so smart and they think that they have it figured out or they will be able to get lucky or they have "insider information", but really largely a losing game full of distractions and nonsensical fantasies of getting rich quick.

Let me give you a bitcoin specific example.

What if you have a guy who is pretty consistent in his investing into bitcoin, and he decided that he was going to invest into bitcoin over two whole cycles, and he had invested into bitcoin over the past 8 years at $200 per week, which would have had been $83.6k invested over 8 years, and right now he would have about 10.347 BTC which have a spot price value of about $1 million (about 12x in profits) and a 200-WMA value of about $450k (about 5.4x in profits).. and surely either way, those are good returns, and you expect to be able to get returns better than that? 

You think that you can beat those returns or that you need to beat those kinds of returns?  Why get greedy? and bitcoin is not showing itself as being any worse investment right now as compared to what it was 8 years ago, even if some of the upside might not be as high as it was, yet bitcoin still has a lot of ongoing upward potential and remains amongst the best of investments (if not the best) currently available across the whole planet for anyone figuring out ways to source their BTC purchases, build their BTC stash size and hold through years, such as 4-10 years or more.  When investing long term, we can consider upside and downside risks and/or benefits, and we can consider that the future is not guaranteed so we have to figure out our position size and our method in such a way to figure out whether our having had invested into bitcoin is likely to give us more options or not, and hopefully we don't screw up a good potential investment by fucking around and trying to trade it... but yeah, people can do what they like.

Whether this particular guy from my example has enough bitcoin or not or maybe he wants to keep accumulating bitcoin at this time, yet his having had built a bitcoin stash that is more than 10 BTC is in a pretty good place with the amount of capital that he had invested so far.


Not only do normies tend to sell too many bitcoin too soon, they also frequently fail/refuse to stay focused on consistently buying bitcoin over years and years, and surely it seems quite likely that if a guy is building up his bitcoin investment for years and years, then he is likely going to have more options, and does not have to get worked up about trying to time some up and down price waves or even worry himself about bitcoin volatility, even though sure bitcoin is quite likely going to continue to be volatile for many years to come, and so any person geting into bitcoin and staying in bitcoin likely has to figure the volatility into his management of his own systems of continuing to buy bitcoin and/or his psychological expectations about the value of his holdings changing based on ongoing expected changes (perhaps even inevitable changes) in bitcoin prices in the coming 5-20 years and further into the future.

Always buying at the considered dip requires extra ammos. This will be tough for an average bitcoiner.

What makes people refrain from doing buying action during every dip is confusion and doubt. Analyzing the current trend is one of the recipes in making a speculation which will result on next strategy. At most of the cases, if we say today is downtrend, it will be the case that will lasts for long period. But sometimes, people doesn't think of other way around that even how powerful a trend is, it can be reversed anytime.

So what to do now? Trust your judgement if it was properly analyzed. After all, if the purpose is really to HODL for long, people can considered every price level as dipping level*.

This is not new and it happens long time ago. This is also the reason why I don't like to use that platform since anyone can create the same name with famous people that's why lots of people get exploited and scammed especially if they are new then didn't know that such activities happened there.

That's why its really good to verify always who are those people reaching you out since once you post something in the community you are following for sure that you receive a lot of message from scammers so better not to entertain any of those. Then also remember the word that admin on groups will never send you pm first usually the people do that are frauds.