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Showing 8 of 8 results by asenski
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Re: BrainWallet Defcon Attack Discussion, Advice, Q&A, Brainflayer Info, etc.
by
asenski
on 13/09/2019, 07:36:40 UTC
extending the password with a salt first and then using that for encryption is always a great idea. extending it with a strong key derivation function that is expensive to brute force such as scrypt (which uses a lot of memory) is even a better idea. setting the values for N=218 and r=8 is also a good setting for this purpose https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7914#section-2

Am I understanding this correctly? You are saying that using scrypt with N=218 and r=8 is just as good as WarpWallet, thus WarpWallet isn't achieving much by doing ton of iterations?

Seems to me you can stretch and obfuscate as much as you want, but you will never solve a couple of fundamental problems:

1. The original passphrase will still have lower entropy than a sequence of random bytes.

2. The more complicated you make the passphrase->rawkey generation process, the more likely you (or the beneficiaries in your will) are to lose funds.

It's interesting proposing new ways to make a brainwallet more secure, and I get that there are some extraordinary situations where use of a brainwallet may be justified, but otherwise... wouldn't you be better off sticking with something more conventional like a paper wallet?

Good points! I'm not suggesting using ONLY brain wallets. I just don't think they should be entirely dismissed because they were badly implemented at first.

I know this is more of a movie script than real life scenario, but interesting nonetheless:

Suppose somehow you are in a third world country robbed and left with nothing and you have a stash you can access via brain wallet just by passphrase and a salt.

(And I DON'T like that WarpWallet uses email for the salt, but could be anything that you are likely to remember forever)
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Re: BrainWallet Defcon Attack Discussion, Advice, Q&A, Brainflayer Info, etc.
by
asenski
on 12/09/2019, 18:01:33 UTC
~
There is no way you can remember 12 words for years to come without writing them somewhere. Which also means that they could easily be stolen or lost.

true but as i explained, the alternative is still flawed so in my opinion storing the 12 words that is randomly generated is a lot safer than using a brainwallet even if it is susceptible to physical theft.
besides you can mitigate that by using some sort of encryption on it! for instance you could use the "brainwallet" as the password for encrypting the mnemonic phrase and then print the encrypted text instead and remember the password.

That is a fine idea!

What I don't like is using a simple SHA for a password. So even the password protected mnemonics if they fall in the wrong hands could easily be brute-forced.

So here is a thought perhaps we'd both agree on - what about WarpWallet type of encryption on top of the mnemonic phrases?
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Re: BrainWallet Defcon Attack Discussion, Advice, Q&A, Brainflayer Info, etc.
by
asenski
on 08/09/2019, 21:56:47 UTC
Using a single step plain hash for brain wallets is definitely a bad idea. But I like the WarpWallet approach.

So far it has stood the test of time even with a password of just 8 alpha-numeric characters. (not even salt)

The key difference is that there are so many iterations instead of a single hash that brute-forcing those keys would not really be feasible (yet).

actually the main difference is in usage of a key derivation function called "scrypt" which is a memory expensive KDF and with decent settings it can become very expensive to break. N=218 and r=8 are the "cost" that are making it expensive since you are basically deriving a 1024 byte long key and then mixing it in 8 blocks, 218 times then deriving another key with that mixed key both times using PBKDF2.
by the way the "s2" variable it uses is quite pointless in my opinion, they could have just increase block size factor from 8 to a bigger value!

and finally i have to mention that even with this much complication, this implementation is also suffering from the same flaws as any other brain wallet: people are not capable of creating a truly random password. most of them will use simple terms which can be found/guesses easily.
setting a couple of complicated passwords as challenge doesn't mean the method is safe. you could do the same thing with other brainwallets too!

Agree that the s2 variable is pointless. The point I was making was that this is a much safer brain wallet, given that people don't use easy to guess input.
I'd still prefer WarpWallet to remembering 12 words. You can use things you'd never forget for master & salt, but are not that common or easy to guess.
There is no way you can remember 12 words for years to come without writing them somewhere. Which also means that they could easily be stolen or lost.

Don't use WarpWallet, the manual key management is a nightmare, and it uses uncompressed addresses. Just memorize a random 12 word seed phrase.

Yes, they should've generated compressed keys, but that can be fixed easily.

There are still 10 BTC sitting there as a reward to whoever can guess the 8 alphanumeric characters. (this one has pre-defined salt)

Do you mean "The WarpWallet Challenge 2"? Check the address, the 10 BTC was moved out in January 2018. The text also says that the challenge expires 1st Jan 2018.

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/1MkupVKiCik9iyfnLrJoZLx9RH4rkF3hnA

Right. They had the prior challenge for 2 years, and it wasn't cracked until the expiration date.
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Merits 4 from 1 user
Re: BrainWallet Defcon Attack Discussion, Advice, Q&A, Brainflayer Info, etc.
by
asenski
on 14/06/2019, 20:34:57 UTC
⭐ Merited by DarkStar_ (4)
What's your take on WarpWallet?

https://keybase.io/warp

Using a single step plain hash for brain wallets is definitely a bad idea. But I like the WarpWallet approach.

So far it has stood the test of time even with a password of just 8 alpha-numeric characters. (not even salt)

The key difference is that there are so many iterations instead of a single hash that brute-forcing those keys would not really be feasible (yet). Also you have the option of adding a salt.

There are still 10 BTC sitting there as a reward to whoever can guess the 8 alphanumeric characters. (this one has pre-defined salt)
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Board Altcoin Discussion
Topic OP
by
asenski
on 30/04/2014, 15:37:53 UTC
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Board Mining (Altcoins)
Topic OP
Ω
by
asenski
on 14/01/2014, 09:45:02 UTC
Ω
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Board Beginners & Help
Re: Tremendous opportunities.
by
asenski
on 21/12/2013, 01:15:06 UTC
nice to see a positive late-adopter!

get your 5 posts and some lurking time, then you are unrestricted.

Thank you, hamdi! You answered my question and glad you recognized my positive attitude, I think it takes one to recognize one.
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Board Beginners & Help
Topic OP
Tremendous opportunities.
by
asenski
on 20/12/2013, 03:43:52 UTC
Hello,

My first post here. Relatively new to bitcoin. Part of mee feels like I missed the train. Then I realized something. Bitcoin is not all about mining. For it to succeed it is up to all of us to actively participate and provide help, tools and services where possible that make bitcoin and alt-coins a success.

Also I've noticed that there are tremendous opportunities when it comes to trading. When the recent sell off happened due to BTC China cash out frenzy. I used some technical analysis and got in around $433. I'm happy with this purchase, granted I only got a few bitcoins but still, I'm excited that I had the balls to stick to my trading plan despite all the panic and troll-box chatter.

In any case, not sure how long I'm going to be restricted to the "noob" section. I'm hoping I can be a good part of the ecosystem and create value for all to benefit.

Happy Holidays!!!