I don't see anything legally binding in regards to the escrow of the funds in the WP.  But as you said, ICOs are unregulated at the moment.  There is a certain level of trust required when investing in an ICO -- you have to trust that the company is going to do what they say they're going to do.

Personally, whether their funds are in a locked escrow, or the funds are unlocked but I have their word they won't touch the funds until after KYC, is not a big deal to me.  But I have personally spoken to the team members and I believe in their vision and the team behind that vision.  For those with less trust, I would recommend staying away from ICOs and buying later on an Exchange.  But I want to see UTRUST succeed, so I'd prefer they get my money directly instead of some guy on the Exchange getting it.

I do partially agree with you, KYC before accepting funds is the most secure and compliant way to do it.  But since their KYC is so manually intensive (i.e. a video chat required for over 14,000 participants with a human operator), I guess they decided it was more important to focus on KYC security (making the KYC process itself more secure than any other KYC process in the industry), instead of paying potentially up to a million dollars (I got that figure from the team) to do the same manual process on 50,000+ participants.  So ideally, they would do the intensive KYC AND do it before the ICO, but they chose a middle of the road option with a focus on a strict KYC process.  It's still better than 99% of other ICOs, and the KYC process itself, while a hassle, is VERY difficult to fake (which you can do with other KYC processes pretty easily).  Sure, I could go grab my brother's passport or friend's passport for the video chat and just use their address/name/information, but you have to agree that it's more secure overall.

Okay, I checked the WP and I see it indeed says 2 weeks.  I reached out to UTRUST and they stated that it should have said 3 weeks.  They will fix it right away.  I do understand being upset when the WP says 2 weeks, but I can assure you they are working as fast as they can given the fact that their KYC process is intensive and manual.  Additionally, the WP does cover them with this statement: "This timeline may be subject to further delays in the event of any unforeseen legal, certification, or regulatory compliance roadblocks"

UTRUST is just as eager as you and I am to get this KYC over with, but it is a necessary evil, and it'll take as long as it takes.  They're not going to take any shortcuts when it comes to compliance.


I spoke to UTRUST and you do NOT have to print out and sign the document by hand.  They do require some form of signature so they know you agreed to the form, but it can be a digital signature (you don't need to sign it by hand; you can sign it with Adobe).


The ICO is already over.


You don't have anything to worry about.  You will have at least 60 days to complete the KYC.  And assuming you can't complete it in time, there will be a way to do manual KYC at any time in the future.  I don't have further details on that process though.  It'll be quickest to do it during the 60 days though.


They do have a third party (IDnow) providing KYC services.


It is not a rubbish myth (in my opinion).  But let me make one thing clear.  UTRUST is NOT partnered with FINMA.  Their goal regarding doing KYC is to be compliant IN THE FUTURE if/whenFINMA starts regulating ICOs.  They want to be a case study for future ICOs looking to maximize compliance if/when it requires compliance in the future.  Regarding doing KYC before letting people invest, there are pros/cons to either option but I don't think they are breaking any current or future laws here, but I am not a legal expert so I'm only voicing an opinion.  Remember that all funds invested are in limbo until KYC is complete.  UTRUST is not allowed to touch it.  The reason they are doing KYC after ICO instead of before is because it's the difference between doing KYC on 14,000 investors, versus over 50,000 investors.  That extra ~40,000 investors adds close to a million dollars in KYC fees, when it's not needed.  The 14,000 people who did invest still must pass KYC or UTRUST cannot touch the funds legally.  But I'm not an expert so I won't speak to this as if I were.

Hi Slimypuppy54,

I'll reach out to UTRUST to see exactly where they are deriving their "3 week" timeframe from.  I thought it was the whitepaper, but let me confirm.

Someone else asked how many tokens UTRUST sold.  This is still awaiting official confirmation, however I spoke to the CEO who confirmed they had large interest in the remaining tokens from US accredited investors (they received millions of dollars worth of pledges, which would have been enough to sell out if they closed the deal).  They likely sold out 100% as they had pledges of several millions of dollars towards the end of the ICO.  I have not received confirmation yet that the remaining tokens have been granted to the accredited investors, however it seems likely given that the ICO page lists it as 100% sold.  I will reach out for an official statement confirming if they did complete the sale.

Someone else was asking about not wanting to sign the KYC form with their handwritten signature.  Please note that you do not have to physically print out the form and sign it.  You can sign it electronically, so your hand-written signature is not necessary.  I hope this helps.

Spoken like a true flipper.

Their need for KYC is obvious.  Please read up on KYC, and increasing Crypto regulations, and FINMA compliance.

They decreased bounties because they halved the total supply.  This makes the token more scarce and valuable for a LONG-TERM HOLD.  They also vested all private investors and halved the team tokens.  This is all beneficial for an investor.  Maybe not so much for a flipper, but who cares about them.

I will change your last sentence from:

"Investors and participants are very badly behaved"

TO:

"UTRUST will not cater to coin flippers.  Every decision they make is made to benefit the company, their investors, and their compliance so they can be a successful long-term disruptor in the industry."

Disclaimer: I do not work for UTRUST

They are officially going by the statement in their whitepaper, which states that tokens will be able to be withdrawn within THREE (3) weeks after the ICO ends.  Yes, I know their FAQ days 10 days.  I will ask them to update it to be consistent.  So, please wait the full three weeks and if the tokens still have not been distributed, then you have a good reason to inquire them about the status.  The delay is not on their end, it's on the end of their KYC provider.  There are very few FINMA-compliant KYC providers, and this is a new KYC system, that is more secure than any other KYC platform I have seen thus far.  UTRUST is more concerned about having everyone complete the full KYC, demonstrating their 100% compliance, than they are about appeasing the impatient investors.  In the long run, their compliance opens up doors, not closes doors.  And in the long run, we're talking about a matter of WEEKS here.  I.E. if they released the tokens right away, it would have only been ~3 weeks prior to when they plan to release them with KYC.  But those extra 3 weeks gives them security and long-term compliance potential. 

No, they are not a scam.  Their funds are inaccessible, even to them, until KYC is completed.  They are in limbo.  They do not gain anything by delaying KYC.  In fact, the quicker they complete KYC, the quicker they can fund their project and hire more staff.  If they were a scam, they would not have hired an expensive KYC company (with many CONFIRMED folks who have completed KYC), nor would they be traveling around the world presenting at blockchain conferences (one they are at right now in Singapore), nor would they be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on marketing, which is evident if you have watched any of their marketing promotions.

I do agree with your last statement.  You should forget about your $100 investment.  Complete your KYC whenever it becomes available, and forget about it for a couple years.

Just be patient and wait a couple more weeks.  What do you have to gain by having those tokens immediately?  You can't even use them yet.

Sorry, I scrolled up further and I see that you invested in the pre-ICO.  Are you from the US?

If you are from the US, you won't be able to get your ETH back because you broke the pre-sale terms (which state no US investors allowed; you ticked a box when opening your UTRUST account even during the pre-sale era).

If you are NOT a US investor, but you invested in the pre-sale, then I believe you should be able to get a refund of your ETH, since KYC was introduced after the pre-sale.  Just contact legal@utrust.io.  It should be no problem, however I do believe you still have to do KYC either way in order to prove that you didn't break the terms (IE to prove you aren't from the US) as tracking the source IP is not enough as you can bypass that with a VPN.  I know that may seem unfair since you invested prior to KYC, but it's important to UTRUST that they treat everyone equally and make sure everyone is following the terms  (in the case of you investing in the Pre-ICO, the terms they need to confirm is whether or not you are from the US, which can only be confirmed through KYC).  If they simply sent you a blind refund because you invested in the Pre-ICO, that could potentially be a breach in their terms because you may have been a US investor trying to scam the system with a VPN, which is quite common.  This evens the playing field and makes it fair for everyone. I am not on the team, so I cannot make the call, but I do communicate with the team daily and my understanding is a refund should be likely if those previous conditions were met (NOT a US investor, but invested during pre-sale and passed KYC proving you aren't from a restricted country and you are who you say you are).  However I would advise you to contact them ASAP.  Once UTK goes on the Exchanges, my opinion is it will be more difficult to initiate a refund.  The reason being, if UTK price drops on the exchanges, people could use that as a loophole to get a refund back.  So it would be in your best interest to contact them now.

Regarding KYC, it's a necessary evil guys.  If you care at all about UTRUST, and not just about flipping, you will understand why it is necessary.  UTRUST is on the path to becoming the most compliant Crypto company in the world.  I believe next to UTRUST, only Ambrosus has a similar level of compliance due to a strict KYC.  Crypto is a cutting-edge, ever-changing landscape; anything goes because it is so new.  Regulations could hit us at any moment, as the government learns how to best deal with Crypto.  If UTRUST wants to survive, they must follow ALL the rules and anticipate potential legal issues down the road, and prepare for that right now.

Who knows, in a few years the Crypto world may be so regulated that UTRUST and future companies that model themselves after UTRUST may be some of the only Crypto companies left standing.  Then you'll be glad you spared a few minutes to do KYC, and possibly some money if you needed to renew your passport.  

If you invested during the ICO (not the pre-ICO) and are complaining about KYC, I don't have any sympathy because you didn't read the terms.

Many folks have successfully completed the KYC.  It really is a painless process if you come prepared with your passport, and a bank/credit card statement (or phone bill, etc.), a webcam or your mobile phone with the IDNow software loaded on it.  It only takes a few minutes.  The company that is performing the KYC is a FINMA-compliant company.  Do you honestly think they are going to sell or give out your data?  They are audited on a regular basis to ensure this does not happen.  Additionally, they are REQUIRED to securely erase all KYC data after a predetermined period of time (I believe 90 days, but I am only going by memory here).

Ignore this.  See my next post.

Hi there,

Not quite.  You are not factoring in private investors (which are vested for 1 year), and pre-ICO participants which got in at a different price.

Here is the breakdown assuming they sell all 500M:

Private investors - 100M tokens - 100,000,000 x 0.02 = $2,000,000
Pre-ICO investors - 50M tokens - 50,000,000 x 0.03 = $1,500,000
Public ICO - 275M tokens - 275,000,000 x 0.065 = $17,875,000
MAX possible amount of money = $21,375,000

If they only sell 450M tokens in the end, then we can change the formula:

Public ICO = 225M tokens - 225,000,000 x 0.065 = $14,625,000
Max possible amount based on 450M selling out = $18,125,000 (added pre-ico and private investor tokens to the above amount)

Note that I got the 275M amount from their ICO page.  Remember that not all 500M tokens are for sale.  50M is reserved for the team, and 25M for bounties, which do not count towards the sale.  So instead of there being 500M for sale between all phases, there is only 425M for sale between all phases, with 25M for bounties and 50M for the team (diluted by 2% per year for 5 years)

All-in-all, a very respectable market cap in either situation, with tons of upside potential.

Welcome back, Yury.  We missed you, your FUD, and bold/large/red text.  Thanks for bumping our thread up and increasing our visibility.  Your efforts are appreciated.

I apologize if this has already been discussed (I checked this thread), but what is your plan to get other big-name Exchanges (i.e. Bittrex) to want to partner with you to allow you to provide liquidity?  It seems to me that your business model is tied directly to partnering with other Exchanges so you can increase your volume.  But won't they see you as a competitor and not want to provide the liquidity you're after?  How do you plan to approach them?  What's in it for them?  Do you have a plan B if you are unable to partner with other exchanges?

Thanks!

Sorry, I did my math wrong... I just realized the private investor sale was limited to 10%, which would be 100,000,000 tokens at $0.02 = $2,000,000.  Plus the 50,000,000 tokens at $0.03 for the pre-sale which is 1,500,000.  So $3.5M total so far.

Hi,

The Pre-ICO had 50,000,000 tokens, and all 7 rounds have 100,000,000 tokens.  7x100,000,000 = 700,000,000.  700,000,000 + 50,000,000 = 750,000,000.  Meaning there were 250,000,000 tokens at a price of $0.02 reserved for strategic partnerships, private investors, etc.  And since they sold out the pre-ICO and private investor ICOs, we can deduce that they have sold 300,000,000 tokens to this date out of a maximum of 300,000,000 tokens.  There are 700,000,000 tokens remaining at the prices and rounds set on their ICO page: https://utrust.io/ico#ico

If they sold 250,000,000 at a price of $0.02, then that would be a total of $5,000,000.  And 50,000,000 at a price of $0.03 would equal $1,500,000.  However, what I am not sure about is if ALL private investors paid $0.02, as there is a little blurb that says "Token price set individually on a partner-by-partner basis." but then it says the price is $0.02.  So someone from UTRUST will have to clarify that.

Hi,

I'm not sure what the minimum amount to invest is, but the bonus you'll get is the ability to purchase the tokens at a cost of only $0.03USD.  The price goes up after the pre-ICO, and with each subsequent phase.  To compare, see this link: https://utrust.io/ico

Hi Kakumei,

I just sent you a PM about investing in UTRUST.  I'm looking forward to speaking to you further about this opportunity.