Sorry for jumping on a dead thread, but I was curious if you (and others) feel that there is a significant number of folks willing to contribute bitcoin to Debian? I suspect if we could show that there is a non-trivial demand, there is a decent chance that a case could be made to set something up.

-helixone

He's talking about transferring to direct, which is actually contingent on both TAT and friedcat processing the request. Even if TAT initiates the request within 12-48 hours, one would still need to wait for friedcat to process it, and these days he only seems to be processing transfers once per week. (But typically he clears outstanding xfer requests befor processing divs.)

I'd day, it's best to not push shares on the day of divs or the day prior. (You prolly won't lose them, it just might get muddled.) 

-helixone

Sadly, we are at a state where AM1 on Havelock currently has by far the highest 24-hour volume (in btc) of any other asset traded on *any* bitcoin-assets exchange today, including OTC, MPEx, Havelock and Bitfunder. It's also about 10 times higher 24-hour volume than any other market that is trading ASICMINER shares.

225.2btc * 187.49999 = $42,225.00 24-hr volume.

For context:
24-hr vol bf: 27.83 btc
24-hr vol 796: 1.91 btc

I think if things remain as they are, HL will be the place to go to trade this asset. (We'll see how OTC picks up as former BTCT holders start running Auctions)

I'd guess, that part of the reason for low volume across the board, is that market participants are in paralysis, and don't know which way the wind is blowing. (And are a bit shell shocked from recent developments.)

I guess I'm being pedantic, when I questioned your wording "working platform". In my mind, I've always tried to get a sense of the volume weighted price, so in today's market HL price is the most relevant price.

-helixone

And this isn't a working platform because? https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=AM1

-helixone

People were warned. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=269216.msg2921430#msg2921430

-helixone

I bet not as annoying as all the issuers having to deal with btct closing, bitfunder closing to US investors, and them having to find new exchanges or closing assets, and handling 100s or perhaps 1000s(?) of transfer requests.

Count your blessings, and keep in mind everyone is in the same boat.

-helixone

I like your line of thinking, however, no miner has the ability to predict mining proceeds three months out, as mining profitability has four main inputs:

1) One's own effective hashrate
2) Hashrate of the network
3) Price of bitcoin
4) Price of overhead/electricity

Arguably #2 and #3 have historically been very pretty difficult to predict, so any predictions would be nothing better than guesses.

Friedcat could share their own predicted hashrate over the next three months, and their costs, but my sense is that information would be too valuable to the competition to make public, and wouldn't really help shareholders as much as you might hope.

-helixone

From the prospectus: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=AM1

- Each AM1 share has the right to 100% of its respective dividends. There are no asset management fees for AM1 shares.
- There is no fee to import shares. There is no minimum quantity for importing shares. (With multiple import sources, including at the time of writing the other existing passthroughs.)
- One transfer OUT of AM1 will be processed free once per month per account. Subsequent transfers within the same month OUT of AM1 are subject to a fee of 0.25 BTC for transfers of 49 shares or less.
- Transfers OUT of AM1 are always free for any transfer of 50 shares or more.
- Export requests to Friedcat will be submitted within 48 hours of receiving your shares.

This all seems very favorable when compared to either the btct or bitfunder passthroughs (especially bitfunder).

The only "catches" it seems are that the issuer reserves the the following rights:

1. To change schedule of dividends to be in line with any changes in schedule the underlying asset may enact.
2. To change the % of board mining profits withheld if expenses, like electricity, are not covered by the 15% portion being withheld.
3. To make changes to this contract that represent the best interests of its shareholders.
4. To correct and clarify any gross errors or details herein that may prove to be open to misinterpretation.
5. To discontinue import services.
6. To refuse abusive requests of the import/export services offered.

Right now there are basically two places (other than OTC) to trade whole shares. Havelock and bitfunder (G.ASICMINER-PT).

Despite explicit rights in the prospectus, G.ASICMINER-PT's operators have not been allowing share imports OR exports for the past couple of months, so I'd say that it's seems that Havelock is the only game in town for shareholders that want to trade whole shares, and still have the opportunity to export to direct shares. I would also say that it seems inevitable, that over the next few weeks that AM1 will grow to become the largest passthrough.

-helixone

I suspect this is probably due to the recent change in the format that the IRC bot that reports trade activity outputs data. (It's now consolidating trades, and has added additional fields.) I've contacted the dev to point this out but haven't heard back yet.

-helixone

No premium, however, both of us puts up equal escrow. (BTC puts suck from the seller point of view as one has to escrow the entire amount, and can't use ones portfolio as escrow.) Let me know privately or publicly:

a) what percentage of the position we should each escrow. I am proposing 25-33%, and if the position moves against either of us more than the escrow deposit, we either need to put up more, or forfeit the escrow. (traditional futures margin call).
b) how many shares you are looking to commit to selling.
 
-helixone

Vycid,

Will you commit to selling me shares of AM in 6 weeks at 2.0/share? Since, this isn't an option but more of a futures play, you don't need to pay me a premium, and I am willing to escrow btc if you can prove ownership of shares, or are also willing to escrow a good faith btc deposit, with an agreed escrow agent.  Thinking we each would put up 25-33% of the position, since btc assets are so much more volatile than other assets traded on futures markets.

-helixone

Well he spent some time accumulating ASICMINER put options, which allow him to profit if the price goes down. If you search his post history you can see a number of posts where he is trying to buy puts.

One example: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=235763.msg2976781#msg2976781

-helixone

Deprived,

I am convinced IceDrill is a shitty PMB in a thinly veiled disguise of an ASICMINER clone. Basically they are selling future hashes at a fixed price, and forcing people to reinvest 25% of mining profits in more hashing power at a price the issuer controls. It's basically a PMB guaranteed to only make money for the issuers, and their hardware suppliers (if they aren't secretly one and the same). The difference between this and a run of the mill PMB is they plan to mask some of those losses by having a depreciation timeline that's been stretched out a bit, so it takes a little longer for it to become apparent that it is a money losing investment.

Best as I can tell, this investment will only make money for the issuers, their hardware suppliers, and perhaps a few flippers, if the issuers aren't too aggressive about issuing more shares too quickly. (Bear in mind they are allowing themselves the right to issue an additional 20,000,000 shares after the IPO sells out, so be careful trying to flip.)

I will say, it's really ballsy in the scale they are doing it at. It's also kinda scary that they have a bitcoin-assets exchange operator backing it. (Ukyo). I'm also very sad to see DeadTerra and Ukyo frittering away any goodwill they had left, for a relatively short term naked money grab.

-helixone

P.S. - Best as I can tell this asset is being setup to create a captive buying group for the "HashFast" ASIC producer, as well as suck up as many coins as possible out of the bitcoin-assets marketplace.
P.S.S. - It's a times like these I really wish that there was margin/shorting on the exchanges to keep crappy behavior like this in check. (This security, ActiveMining, Labcoin, BTCgarden and perhaps even ASICMINER could all use a healthy dose of very large shorting right about now.)

There is another option. ASICIMNER also trades an http://havelockinvestments.com/ as ticker AM1. AM1 allows direct import from bitfunder (G.ASICMINER-PT) and btct.co (ASICMINER-PT). Directions are here: https://www.havelockinvestments.com/fund.php?symbol=AM1

Recently, I've been keeping the majority of my personal AM holdings on Havelock and it's worked out pretty well, as the issuer pays divs VERY fast, is very responsive when transferring shares, has no management fees, and transfers of bitcoin in and out are very fast as well. Sales commissions are lower than bitfunder as well. (0.4% vs 1%)

The one downside is that trading volume currently is a bit on the low side.  (If you are looking to buy or sell a large number of AM shares, I don't think the volume is quite ready yet). Arguably though, this is somewhat true of anywhere AM trades.

-helixone

Did someone lose a sock puppet?

-helixone

I haven't done the math super recently, but at BTC's current price, if your HW is paid for already, and your electricity costs are low enough GPU mining *might* still be marginally profitable. But not as profitable as altcoin mining with GPUs.

-helixone

BFL is the least of anyone in the mining space's worries. (Well assuming you aren't actually waiting for a BFL hardware delivery.)

-helixone

Deprived,

There are many people who would pay 5 btc for an emergency loan of 400btc to get in a hot and oversubscribed IPO. As fund manager, you should not treat the fund as your personal piggy bank. I think you have to be very careful about the conflict of interest between your fundholders interests and your personal financial interests. I'm sure you have convinced yourself that this is fair, but from the outside it looks very much like self dealing.

I believe you should have done this investment either completely with your own money, or given the fundholders benefit from the inevitable trading gain. (17000 bitcoins chasing a 7000 btc allocation will lead to inevitable stock price IPO jump).

Please consider doing the right thing and share the wealth, less management fee, with your fundholders.

-helixone

Wrong thread?

-helixone