I find it very convenient that both you and jl777 share the name James

Doge was a new cryptocurrency, and had a low hash rate. Not only was there tipping involved ... that came later. A large part of its hashrate came from it being so easy to mine. There were hundreds of people posting on threads there learning how to mine just stablecoin. Imagine how many were trying to mine dogecoin? The first few days I got tens of thousands, on miserable hardware. People who didn't even know what they were doing got millions.

Then there was an irc chat right on some of the pools .. so the comfortable thread like nature could continue.

My point here is that you got people who didn't even think about a power bill into mining because it was easy to do and got a couple dollars on your computer, however few dollars that was. The mining came before the tipping, and that's what brought the people to want to tip - because it was worth jack squat to someone who was around for a week and knew that 50 doge was nothing .. but to someone who didn't and was just moving with the exuberant herd .. well that was really something.

Really, in one night, you had hundreds of people who would just sit in a thread and flame people for no reason set up a server, start mining and find a block. It was just so easy and it had some kind of value (which is more value than sitting around flaming people and not getting magic internet money - the choice was logical). Again, the tipping came later.


It had nothing to do with BTC being an exclusive rich club .. it had more of a creepy lurker vibe than anything else .. like the 22 year old man who's telling you he's making an Iron Man suit out of titanium in his dorm room. People were even making flame 'buttcoin' threads pretty regularly. It was a joke that Doge captured pretty well .. without being directly offensive. Satire.

Yes, forums outside this one that now have a cryptocurrency section or topics that weren't there before.

4chan now has a /biz section, which was originally designed to facilitate the rampant discussion of alternative cryptocurrencies .. that began with the excessive moderation of Doge and Stablecoin threads that were springing up like weeds. That section continues to maintain multiple conversations about cryptocurrencies today. Before that, there was a sparse mention of a bitcoin thread in the /pol section .. they were largely ignored. You may consider that these people would have ordinarily not have invested in bitcoin .. because these threads have been on that site for years and were'nt producing the effect like it did with Doge.

Reddit now has an incredible number of threads dedicated to alternative currencies, and are a staple of some communities. Thousands of pages of nothing but Doge.

Even obscure forums like SMD, and GameFAQS forums are now exposed to these alt coins.

The qualification that forums were exposed to cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin through Doge is an important one. You've mentioned many times that people always have to go through KYC/AML laws in order to get their hands on cryptocurrencies .. well in this case thousands of people grabbed Doge and in my case Stablecoin before ever touching bitcoin. I say thousands because just a few months ago I saw more than double the number of average users on poloniex trading as I do right now (770). These people were on constantly .. and now they're not. I feel pretty safe to say that a lot came for both the Doge and Bitcoin rush.

I feel this way because when comparing the Doge and Bitcoin reddits, there are 133,973 readers and 87,036 rich shibes. From those numbers, I'd say that of the 800 (that are now not there) that were there for the 'bitcoin boom', 39.3% of them were brought in mostly from Doge using only reddit numbers. This is 315 people out of ~1500. I'm making the point that there were 87,036 people that were interested in cryptocurrencies because for one brief moment there was a link to something they were already familiar and comfortable with - making fun of people on the internet.

If you're looking for more quantification, take a look at the site traffic from those sites .. because I'd be very surprised if most of these people didn't come from one of those sources. So yes, I agree that qualitative and quantitative demographics studies show that Doge "drew in new people who would not be attracted to Bitcoin", because the avenues these people took to get doge coin were, for the most part, already subjecting these same people to bitcoin (which they then ignored) for years.

It brought in those who lived a lifestyle of satire and burlesque. People who spend idiotic amounts of time browsing the internet all day looking for the funnies .. likely to be associated with a nerd consumer culture in which memes were already ubiquitous. These are the people who spend money wastefully on browser based games linked with social media, browse various internet forums for no real reason other than lacking a hobby, or job (generally because they're locked up in an apartment for 10-14 hours a day and going stir crazy - but can't afford to do much else than internet based hobbies). It brought in many Americans who saw it as the punt. These same people only ever focus on the punt, because they're generally onto the next punt before the first one lands. These punts are free so the attention span is microscopic.

It brought in people that wanted to see bitcoin as a joke, and a satire of it was a digging dog that speaks in its own dialect. It fit into the subconscious of people that are completely miserable, and made a joke from the folly of their poverty -- and even then told them they'll be rich beyond all else because of their folly. It fit well because it was an accurate description of what people think this is all about - a cult of people digging for electronic gold saying things that make mostly no sense. It was a comfortable description, and I haven't really seen much to say that it's not an accurate one save for people telling me it's gonna be worth something some day.

Understand that these are my opinions, but I don't think it's a flight of fancy to say that this is largely true. Personally, I think that there's more here .. but take what I wrote for what it's worth.

Are you talking about that time when Risto started his alt observer thread and banned you from it for a day? You haven't been back since .. you do know that quark is an alt coin .. right ?

I think he was more unaccustomed to your eccentric and energetic posting style and worried about asserting some type of authority in his thread to set a strong precedent than he ever was trying to censor you specifically. Maybe you should post something in the thread? Maybe I'm wrong?

Before that, you actually posted that you almost bought some of it .. now you're making "Are Monero Monopolists angry because the Bitcoin monopoly is falling apart?" threads.

..what happened?

Hey did you ever get anywhere with this 'scam' cards that I saw?

1- It did get answered by smooth, look in his posts for the exact answer to the question (brilliantrocket's question I think?). Anyways -  tacotime, eizh, smooth, fluffypony, othe, davidlatapie, NoodleDoodle. There are a few other developers involved, not sure if they're part of this forum or not.

2 - at least two core members and i believe two developers on top of that.

3 - smooth answered this as well in that post you're gonna go look for. it sounded like it was more than a little but less than a lot. that amount of time from >7 people on development is a lot of man hours.

3 - sometimes, all people want to do is link past performance with future results. This is why there is a major trend for developers to use sock puppets to manage their various coins. The developers that have decided to contribute to Monero have chosen not to go that route. Whether or not you choose to link past performance to future results is generally a matter of speculation (at least it is to me) .. unless there was some massive error or major achievement in a developers past. Taking that into account, we either have some of the worst criminals or nobel prize laureates developing these coins.

Just another telemarketer, this one appears to be selling gold stars.

Greekbitcoin already has a price monitoring app (worked with a friend), so maybe try messaging for information about it?

I noticed you've been saying 'we' lately .. so I'm going to take a leap of faith. There would likely be no 'XMR devs' at all if you people didn't launch an 82% mined coin into the public eye. That alone has lost you your crown, regardless of how much better you think you can manage the project. That your opinion is that they cannot manage it better than yourselves is a 'no shit' kind of statement - you fucking made the code. Then you tried to tell 6 billion people they can only ever have 18% of your fantastic creation. That's just not gonna fly in this reality. That's why BTCtalk members and people outside your closed community treat Bytecoin and CryptoNote like crap: Hypothesis rejected. As far as 'enemies' go: You're still open source, and for the most part not really a threat. You want your software to be in the hands of 6 billion people as much as we do; however, it won't be your efforts that bring it to them. That responsibility was taken from you, be it right or be it wrong - it is fact: Hypothesis accepted.


Everything about Monero is more real than most everything I've seen in my entire short amount of time spent in this miserable forum. More real than the monitor in front of my face or the keyboard I type to you on. The developers will continue to live up to being able to maintain the code to an acceptably high quality - and it will take a different trajectory than you wanted it to. I get that you think that having 82% of the currency in your hands means it won't be in a botnets hands - but it violates a simple law that runs markets and gives things value: Everyone has paid the market price. You have not had a market for >80% of the existence of the currency, therefore you cannot follow this law. You lied, cheated and stole what you pretended to offer us - this is far more detrimental than any botnet can ever be. You did not pay the market price and now you're paying the ultimate price. If you would like to have some form of representation in the future of your project - I suggest you join teams with Monero now, else they (and those 6 billion people) will continue on without and despite you.

You forget, that you (as the discreditor) must bear the burden of proof (much like I now have to do with anything I've tried to discredit). I accept that there's 10,000 people here, and eagerly await you to prove me differently .. not the other way around. Also, there's a GUI here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=683365.0


Volume? What volume? It's as if you're convinced there's only 600 BTC, and 200k XMR in the entire world. This is the same fallacious reasoning behind people saying their little project is going to directly displace litecoin. I don't understand the logic - there's trillions of dollars .. and it seems like people are constantly under the impression that what they see on coinmarketcap is all there really is ever. There are many new users showing up in the BTCtalk forum .. few if any of new people directly show up on any of the advertised XMR forums .. and I don't blame them. Darkcoin had almost nobody going to its forum until it had a significant value. Often times the individual coins forum can be thought of as the 'coin graveyard'. Interesting that you actually want people to go to the coin graveyard .. ulterior motives .. is it true? Hypothesis accepted!

Back to what we were talking about - there's plenty of signs of new support - the hashrate has been climbing steadily, we haven't made a new ATL that was lower than the previous ATL before a major uptrend started .. plenty of new people appear on the btctalk threads. If you're not seeing it, it's called 'confirmation bias' and you should look it up please.

It's still only 213k XMR, 7.1% of the currency in circulation. We now have 1% of the people, 7.1% of the currency, and 3.2% of the marketcap in demand on PLX. That's like saying the entire United States is going to secede from the union because colorado wants to split into north and south colorado. Just not seeing how you can get any worthwhile information from that.

Because your statement translates to "Does anyone care about Monero besides the people trading it on an exchange"

To which you answered 'no'. This is false because there are predictions of >10,000 people using the software (one of rpietila's posts I believe). There's less than 50 -100 people trolling the troll box pretty much all the time. I'm not really sure how you managed to draw a complete picture from <1% of the people involved in this coin. Also, from what I can see there's only 173k XMR up on PLX right now. I'm just not seeing how you're making a complete picture out of what's been about 5.7% of the currency.

He didn't answer/address your statement  because you've made an assumption and declared it as a factual answer. Logical people cannot answer your illogical reply, because there's no logic to it .. how are you missing that?

This is how you sell garbage to people, not whatever it is you're doing: http://www.theonion.com/articles/were-going-to-enjoy-this-cocainefueled-mason-jar-r,36779/


..except replace every instance of mason jars with Pandacoin or whatever heap you feel like hyping for the next couple of days.

Are you guys even trying any more?

..is it true?

Hypothesis accepted!

Your own presentation, page 9 and after talks about nothing but forced mixins:

http://www.slideshare.net/boolberry/boolberry-solves-cryptonoteflaws-37055246

Also, your developer has said you are wrong here also:


Also, this is discussed here: https://forum.cryptonote.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=239


Additionally .. are you joking or serious that the tx fee is not variable with the size of the transaction? Not much of an abuse deterrence here, now that you're entirely dependent on forced mixins to provide 'guaranteed' anonymity.

But it's not pruned, it's 'pruned'. It will continue growing forever - just because he bought an extra year or two for something that's not even really a problem for easily over five years doesn't really sell me on it right now. Specifically because it's an partial solution to something that's not important right now when the chain is small. If he doesn't spend time on things that are important right now - building community, a real GUI, protocol bug fixes, multisig, firing btc-mike .. and instead spends all day working on things that have zero effect right now .. but can be done in the future .. then why would I ever think that he's gonna be working on the right thing? If one were to take this illegitimate 'pruning' as a selling point .. I would feel that there's a distinct lack of prioritization. I'm just not sold on that one, because of the trade offs involved (below). He has time to create a database - so why not work on that? Yes, I agree that 'pruned' in an embedded DB would be fantastic, but the reality is that taking a potshot on my mixins isn't the way to 'prune' cryptonote. I don't know what is .. but it's not that.

That's just it - now there's mandatory mixin features, you're left with no freedom to choose to mix at all .. and you pay higher tx fees because of that. What does this spur? Someone on the CN site said it best: A tragedy of the commons! It will get to a point where the biggest damn transactions will be chosen over the small ones, to an extreme and much faster when on a comparison with bitcoin or even Monero. The transactions are already larger with CN - there's only so many that can fit into a block, and even then there's only so much to the adaptive limit. The space will run out, and miners will cash the transactions worth the most value. It will cause transaction witholding attacks etc etc .. not something I'd want to encourage. Apart from that .. CZ decided to make space by trimming RS's. That means this data is not there to mix with when it originally would have been! Now we absolutely need miners to cash the highest mixin transactions in order to make more of an anonymity set, so that you can remain cryptographically anonymous in the first place!

Monero was launched by TFT, not the team that is in control today (I know you know this). I was here since the launch was delayed about an hour and a half because TFT couldn't compile binaries. Shit yea I made some Moneros, then I bought much more than I mined on top of that! Why would you need a 'proper' relaunch when there was no violation of the social contract in the original? It was fair in every regard. Just because theres no DB doesn't mean it's not fair. That just means it needs improvement .. because it would be retarded to relaunch a fair coin that was taking up a little more disk space than bitcoin, but was still totally accessible to anyone that was asking for it. How do you have a problem with people taking control of an open source project? I'm just not seeing a problem with this .. people decided to support Monero, the currency, and then the original team or two (probably more factoring in the coin-mill argument) made a decision that exactly zero people agreed with .. and an alternative was offered by the very same group that's in control today. The community voted them in, and the old idiots out. What we were left with was a group of people that haven't fucked us over to date. I consider that a good decision.

btc-mike mentioned somewhere that he made comments in that paper as well .. not sure what you're doing defending the language part. Also - peer review. Btc-mike seems to know English. Hell, CZ probably could have paid someone twenty dollars and got someone to read it for grammar .. not my problem. Fact is - he didn't do it, and chose to release a shoddily-written white paper .. which are generally things that suffer through incredible amounts of abuse regardless of grammar errors or the fact that CZ wrote it. No amount of tears after the fact is going to change that. Guess it's time to make another go at that one.

My concern with BBR is not that the development is slow or in process, where did I say that? My concern with the development of BBR is that he is working on:
It's insane to think that with the CN protocol being shoved down everyone's throats .. but now within a month .. even that wasn't good enough! No! We're gonna shove more crap down your throat! Just too much information coming at once. People were still trying to understand wtf CN was, and here comes some guy who not only says it has flaws .. but adds novelty features to it! If it had flaws .. why the fuck wasn't he fixing them?! Again, I consider his method of compressing/trimming the blockchain a hack .. because of the tradeoffs. A database has zero trade offs, and yields the same shrinkage his solution does! Good luck trying to sell people on "Well, instead of compressing stuff like those other guys are taking so long to do we just cut parts out to have the exact same result for you, so long as you're willing to pay a little more! Also, enjoy waiting a day for your transaction to be picked up in ten years! At least at the end of the wait you can save a billionth of a microsecond and just have someone send you money to your alias!"


You don't need trust for a wallet address either. Just because I have to right-click copy and paste one string doesn't really make me mad I have to do the same with the other. Then there's the name squatting -- again introducing a tragedy of the commons. You're setting people up against each other on shit that doesn't need to be implemented into the protocol. Oh the horror of copying and pasting!
Which works if I know about less than ten people. Anything more than than an I'm gonna save the alias in a notepad anyways - because again tragedy of the commons will force people to compete for alice1, alice2, and alice3. How do I hold all these alices? In a notepad - with their last name and other contact info the same as I would with XMR. It's a non-benefit novelty feature that will wear itself out as soon as people have to compete for aliases.


Yeah - funny thing demand is. If people want the coin, and you have what produces the coin .. are you gonna feel compelled to give them that for cheap? The bounty for the BBR miners to be open sourced was considered a fair price for it at the time (otherwise there would be no source). Because the value offered was less than what is currently offered for an open source XMR ATI miner, I'm making the correlation that demand was less. The market cap has already reached a significant value to afford open sourcing the XMR Nvidia miner, and only time will pass before the bounty will be considered significant enough to open source the ATI miner. Whether this will correlate with an increased market cap, increased difficulty, or decreased demand are not up to me. As the value currently stands at roughly 500 XMR and some BTC, I don't think it will be soon. Fortunately, a small developer fee is being easily bought every day .. while still giving people fair access to minting the coin. If it weren't then nobody would use the program.



I guess I should explain - my personal stance is that absolutely none of us knows exactly what emission curve is correct for a cryptocurrency in 2014. Not how long it should go on for, not how much should be in the reward .. we're getting a good idea on block times but that's about it. I think many agree that a couple weeks is too short .. but look at some of the PoW/PoS coins that are still around. Clearly I'm not 100% right, and don't claim to be because it would be insane to tell these people they're wrong unless I was from the future and knew the correct emission for a cryptocurrency. In short - I don't argue the point because I have no legitimate opinion about the emission curve, and I'm okay with not knowing exactly how it's going to turn out.

I think most people dismiss it as a bug .. because if we all understood CN, we would have had a valid understanding of the block rewards and known before TFT launched the coin. Shit was open source from the launch. The social contract is in github, not on the OP .. that's why this shits open source. TFT lied to us, but the social contract is and has always been the current emission. The only fix I think anyone can agree on would be to change the block times, and keep the emission. That's probably gonna be a 'run this version of the source or that one, up to you' kind of thing though .. I hope it happens and there's no serious divide like the last time something like that was used in XMR.

You should try it out sometime.

You're using disinformation. The funny thing is that you've already quoted the same post I'm going to quote right now .. so I know you're lying:


The core team has condemned the actions of this twisted campaign. What they can't do is get you to not be a flat out liar.

I believe both fluffypony and smooth have responded to those exact criticisms every single day for the last 2-3 months.

Here's one response:



By cutting out dust from block rewards. Monero can have this as well. They chose to spend their time on building a proper database instead. I think I saw CZ get all giddy when he tried to make the point that a hard fork would likely be required to do exactly what he did. TBH, I've heard claims of 30-70% reduction with just a database being a possibility .. so why this is being repeated and hailed as a pinnacle achievement (trimming dust) I don't really care to know. Nobody knows the exact percentage:

..so I'm gonna ask you .. could it be that we're really just dealing with a guy that wanted to take a hacked shortcut by ruining your anonymity set and not deal with putting the work into creating a real database in the first place? What you should be asking is why he didn't put it in a real database!

Ten years, tony will have to pay an address licensing fee. His social security number will be replaced by his blockchain alias and it will be just wonderful. Not really .. these aliases are kinda pointless. Any benefit provided by protocol enforced aliases can just as easily be given by a third party that would use the alias in the first place. Also .. what if someone nabbed your view key or got access to your wallet? Imagine having to pay another aliasing fee? Could be lots of money. Why go through the hassle?

..which were affordable because nobody fucking wants the coin.

Oh look! Another time traveler who knows for sure that blocks should yield exactly the amount of value that BBR produces! How convenient!

Bullshit! This is a race, and it seems that the only thing with developers running a marathon here is Monero. If they have too much class and style to not say that, then I'm gonna put it right in front of your face: The competition is simply out-classed and totally out of its element here. It will lose its breath.

Some people here have actual learning difficulties:


I admit, that I fall under that umbrella too! OP is right!

It's okay, J1mb0 has learning difficulties!


I bet the monitor was upside down! Silly J1mb0!