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Re: ⭐️►Facebook, Twitter, linkedin - добавляем друг друга в друзья◄⭐A
by
ngupowered
on 16/01/2018, 17:12:15 UTC
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 28/07/2016, 13:27:29 UTC
I was wrong; RealBitcoin trying to "deductively" explain things means him quote-surfing the internet for something snappy, insipid and negative about socialism or communism. Of course, the same could be done to liberalism and capitalism, but I just can't be bothered.

But I did find this quote from Bill Gates, which I thought was kinda funny, although in support of capitalism: "Capitalism has worked very well. Anyone who wants to move to North Korea is welcome".
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 27/07/2016, 10:05:50 UTC
This is not fun anymore , I'm trying to explain deductively [...]

Just for the record, this is RealBitcoin trying to deductively explain things:

Communists and leftists are always violent, and will always commit atrocities.

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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 25/07/2016, 16:51:55 UTC
It is assumed that for any market to be efficient all market participants should have equal access to information. In real life though, this is never the case and will never be. So those who are more informed will always have an advantage before those who are less informed (or more misinformed, lol), and free market (a total laissez-faire capitalism) can only make this situation worse, since there is no impartial arbitrator by definition (whose role is usually taken by the state)...

In short, everyone is manipulating others to the extent of their misunderstanding, and being manipulated himself to the extent of his own misunderstanding.

Short answer: it's profitable, short term, to manipulate people, be it markets or commodities, which is probably what's being done right now with some altcoins: the pump & dump; the buying of one's own coin on one's own market, boosting price; you name it.

Capitalism is like a magic trick: it isn't what is actually good from an engineering- or environmental standpoint, but how much one can deceive to make it look good. RealBitcoin suggested independent journalist and reviewers; but how do we know they aren't being manipulated as well, or are doing it themselves, or getting paid to do it.
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 25/07/2016, 15:41:20 UTC

And there's nothing stopping consumers, in this system, voting their money; so you see, we actually DO have a free market.
In reality, this is capitalism: "2006 Ivory Coast toxic waste dump"

If the local population didnt cared, then who would do something against it?
 

Isn't that obvious? The people doing the dumping should have cared, but didn't, because it wasn't profitable, which is just capitalism rearing its ugly head. Yes, the locals were "lucky" just a few of them died or got sick so they found out; imagine instead, if they hadn't, but years or decades later.
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 24/07/2016, 11:43:46 UTC
But in a Free market, conflicts would be resolved pretty fast. It would definitely not take 15 years to revoke the license of a company if they did something bad. The customers would just simply boycott them and they would go bankrupt instantly.

Obviously not true, because a company wouldn't tell the public if it did something wrong that could cause them bankruptcy, and some frauds are very hard to detect, such as the one below:

"When Volkswagen revealed in September that it had installed software on millions of cars in order to trick the Environmental Protection Agency’s emissions testers into thinking that the cars were more environmentally friendly than they were, investors understandably deserted the company.", from fortune.com.

Companies need to be more transparent. I agree with that.

But that doesn't mean that my point above is invalid, the market can still force the companies to be transparent, if there is demand for it.

And there's nothing stopping consumers, in this system, voting their money; so you see, we actually DO have a free market.
In reality, this is capitalism: "2006 Ivory Coast toxic waste dump"
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 22/07/2016, 10:52:06 UTC
But in a Free market, conflicts would be resolved pretty fast. It would definitely not take 15 years to revoke the license of a company if they did something bad. The customers would just simply boycott them and they would go bankrupt instantly.

Obviously not true, because a company wouldn't tell the public if it did something wrong that could cause them bankruptcy, and some frauds are very hard to detect, such as the one below:

"When Volkswagen revealed in September that it had installed software on millions of cars in order to trick the Environmental Protection Agency’s emissions testers into thinking that the cars were more environmentally friendly than they were, investors understandably deserted the company.", from fortune.com.
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 21/07/2016, 10:26:30 UTC
Actually, the correct definition of a "free market" is a market where the price of commodities isn't controlled by some entity, where free competition on equal terms is possible, but does NOT mean that any transaction is possible, such as a person wanting to sell a nuclear bomb to some terrorist.

RealBitcoin, we're saying that bad behaviour is amplified by people willing to "cut corners" to remain competitive or for profit - and in some instances even creates such behaviour where none previously existed - like placing a pedophile in a kindergarden, or a rapist in the women's shower, but 10 times worse as someone comes along saying "I'll give you 10k for raping that woman" - metaphorically speaking of course.
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 18/07/2016, 17:18:09 UTC
Communists and leftists are always violent, and will always commit atrocities.

This is the kind of retarded nonsense that actually puts RealBitcoin on the wrong side of the fence.
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 17/07/2016, 18:27:38 UTC
RealBitcoin is probably a disciple of Stefan Molyneux's who also likes to state that voluntarism is part of capitalism, totally forgetting that all ventures must be undertaken for profit to qualify.
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 13/07/2016, 14:47:19 UTC
Open Source softwares are not an antithesis to capitalism, it's just a voluntary cooperation, which is compatible with capitalism.

That's like saying vegetable soup is compatible with capitalism. It doesn't make any sense. Capitalism isn't just private property, but also trading for profit, in the free market, which really isn't compatible with free software, unless you're Bill Gates where money doesn't matter and you can play philanthropist.

Capitalism is like a religion saying "try joining us or die" whereas an RBE is more like "don't join us and don't die".

Well then good luck changing 1 million years of human genetic evolving in a few decades with anti-private property propaganda.
compatible with capitalism.

So you believe that when a 3-year old says "mine", it really means it like an adult would, rather than "hey, I'm playing with that now; await your turn!"?
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 12/07/2016, 15:57:23 UTC
RealBitcoin, of course it takes willpower to change a capitalist; but it doesn't take capital; take Linux for instance: developed purely from will, WITHOUT capital (money).

Now to Venezuela. You fail to comprehend that an ALREADY capitalistic world isn't going to invest in an ALREADY poor country with low property rights and security - not going to happen - meaning that they are essentially cut off from the world, hence their problems; but it doesn't prove that Venezuela is a failure, just that the "market" doesn't like it. Let's face it: if you believe something to be yours, you're not going to hand it over to someone intent on destroying it.
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Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 11/07/2016, 19:23:50 UTC
The facts below are what keep staring at RealBitcoin, every time he opens his mouth to say something he thinks clever:

Do we (the earth) have the technology and resources to give everyone a decent standard of living? YES

Do we have the money, or is it profitable to do so? NO

Those answers are what you ever need to show RealBitcoin.
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 03/06/2016, 13:27:53 UTC
BARR, this thread is for discussing a Resource Based Economy (RBE).

I followed the link in your signature, and, lo and behold, I found this statement:

"We believe that the altcoin market is stuck in a fatal loop;
BARR is designed to disrupt that self-destructive cycle and eliminate resource-hogging redundancy.", my emphasis.

This perfectly describes an RBE, but encompassing all of the world's resources.

Could it be that you actually are a "socialist"?
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 11/01/2016, 22:53:11 UTC
RealBitcoin, again, nothing you just stated has anything to do with Merriam-Webster's "free market", since people are free to not use government fiat money, asses stock values by their method of choice, and aren't forced to buy them, all free market behavior.
Your job is to show the coercion, and that it is sufficiently large to give a negative impact than would a completely unregulated market.

No they are not. Taxes must be paid in legal tender fiat. And society forces you to shop with fat as well. ["forces"?? What are you smoking, RB? As part of a free market, private businesses have the right to barter anything for its products and services, even BitCoin, and there's no law that says otherwise.]

It's not that it's not feasable to shop with gold coins, it is actually impossible if not illegal. ["illegal"?? How about you show a law in support?]

Truth hurts, doesn't it, RB, that there indeed is a free market, and society still goes to sht!
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 11/01/2016, 21:25:51 UTC
RealBitcoin, again, nothing you just stated has anything to do with Merriam-Webster's "free market", since people are free to not use government fiat money, asses stock values by their method of choice, and aren't forced to buy them, all free market behavior.
Your job is to show the coercion, and that it is sufficiently large to give a negative impact than would a completely unregulated market.
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 11/01/2016, 20:23:56 UTC
RealBitcoin, you seem to be including a lot of supposition of what constitutes a free market, when I already told you its definition which you agreed with: " an economic market or system in which prices are based on competition among private businesses and not controlled by a government ", my emphasis - there being nothing in there about people not working together toward a common goal, also known as a company.

If you really wanted to convince us, you'd be making the case that there isn't a free market, on U.S. soil, for example, according to that definition, but also prove that tax money could have been better spent in the free market and was not subject to competition for government projects, in the free market, and also prove that the government is indeed threatening/forcing all people on U.S. soil to pay income tax - good luck!
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 11/01/2016, 13:13:28 UTC
RealBitcoin, you really need to be stating more clearly the "nonsense" and why, and not just write blanket statements.

If your drug is second to market, and both parties are equally invested, you wouldn't try to compete, but simply join them in a monopoly or cartel, keeping the price high - which is why there are laws against such behavior.

Unfortunately, there's centralization everywhere, because it's more efficient. For instance, take a company with a central management and departments who all communicate and share research with one another, it would be highly inefficient to have them perform the same task or compete internally - more like academia where research is published; that's an RBE.
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Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 11/01/2016, 00:42:49 UTC

The thing is that in a real free market, there wont be just 1 person inventing the cure, but many separate people, not even knowing of eachother. [which is highly inefficient because they are not communicating and sharing ideas. Actually, this is very similar to the hashing problem in BitCoin, where if all the miners cooperated, they could cover the hash space just once. ]

And they would compete about who can release the vaccine faster to earn more money. The person that invents it first, will quickly start to sell it before the other people invent it, to ensure that he profits the most. And when the other start to sell it, the price of it will drastically drop. [Unless they go into monopoly, keeping the price high.] So the vaccine will be on the market ASAP. Greed is a 2 edged sword, and in this case, greed will save many people's lives, because as greedy is the inventor, as fast the cure will start to save lives. So if 1 out of the 100 inventors withholds the cure, he will just lose money, as the other 99 people did the right thing, and will be rewarded with big bucks.

If you have 1 point of failure, a communist research department, you can just have 1 evil person withholding the cure because he believes the "people" are not ideologically pure enough to receive it, or some other disturbed ideological delusion, and will let people die.
[And the same could happen in the free-market, by someone not interested in profit.]

Doesnt matter what system you create, if you centralize power, you wont create a paradise, but rather a hell on earth. [I guess that your body is "hell on earth" then.]

A free market is just there to balance power, nothing more, nothing less.
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Board Economics
Re: A Resource Based Economy
by
ngupowered
on 10/01/2016, 22:59:31 UTC
RealBitcoin, in "mission impossible 2", a company unleashes a deadly virus on the populace - thereby disrespecting property - when in possession of the cure, in order to reap huge profits. There simply doesn't exist a mechanism in free-market capitalism that would prevent something like this from eventually occurring. Hence, property yields to profit.

That event would never happen.
[Entirely plausible it could!]

And even if it would, people will just storm their building and steal the cure if they really dont give it up.
[Sounds like chaos and property being violated! That's free-market capitalism for you: inconsistency and violens!]

If there is a global pandemic and you posess the cure for it, you will sell it,  even if you are a psychopath, because it can gain you billions of dollars.
[They profit, and millions die! Way to go free-market capitalism, wohooo!]

But what is the alternative? If you have this global communist system setup, how do you know that the director of the pandemic research facility (yes you will have hierarchy even in RBE) wont just run away with the cure and keep it for himself and then sell it on the black market?
 [In an RBE, there's no market to sell on; there's nothing to profit from. Any withholding of the cure, from your fellow man, is a severely distorted behaviour picked up in the free-market where it's rewarded, no doubt. ]

What prevents that? At least in capitalism you have a formal market where you can drop your ideas and inventions for sale.
[Because the best ideas, such as abundance for all, is not profitable in the free market.]

If you banish money, you will have only black markets and violence. Even the soviet union had a huge black market system, people need capitalism ,you cannot comprehend it that it's a basic trait of humans to acquire capital and resources.
[I already linked you a publication showing that toddlers have not the same notion of property as adults, but are more about needs, which is more in line with an RBE. You don't have a need for property, but for access to resources, such as transportation, rather than owning it.]