http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/5423432/Star-Wars-coins-not-a-purchasing-force RLY?

I understand the formula, just not sure it's realistic to project the difficulty going that high unless you count on amazing new mining hardware coming to market and/or a massive increase in BTC value.  Even at $100/BTC a 1.2Gh/s rig starts costing more in electricity than it mines in less than 130 days.

Sooo, in a year the difficulty will be 62 billion??  That is quite high!

Thanks spruce; that makes a bit more sense. That chart explains a few things about New Zealand (where I live).  Argh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Upon seeing this thread, I just dug up the above link.  Wow.  Some pretty incredible figures there... and wtf, Luxembourg?!

I don't really know how these numbers relate to the whole picture though, so I too await an informed response

Why not just prohibit drugs?  Oh...

A local exchange would be Awesome.  I was talking to the guys from TradeHill about becoming their NZD partner, but haven't received a reply in a while.  I'll try sending them a reminder.  But yes, in general -- I am keen to help build a direct bridge between BTC and USD in whatever way I can

I was going to try to come up with some clever commentary to frame the start of this thread, but I think the video will inspire enough of that all by itself:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/kevin_slavin_how_algorithms_shape_our_world.html

Just don't hate on the dude too much for saying "is is" instead of "is"

Enjoy!

It turns out the reason they were so cheap is they are refurbished... but they have already been snapped up since I posted!!
Other than that, the best mining GPU deal I can find in the country is $200NZD for 5830s. 
Oh well at least it's cold enough here that I don't have to include electricity in the costs for another few months
Thanks anyway!

Hi,
I live in New Zealand, where hardware is extremely expensive.
5970s usually retail for over $1000NZD, but today I found a few of these advertised:


for just over $400NZD in a few places.  One of them is a reputable retailer so I'm not thinking "scam", but I am wondering if there's anything I should know about this particular model which makes it so much cheaper? 

Will it still perform effectively (~750Mh/s) for mining?  What about gaming?  Any helpful advice appreciated

Me.

I think bitcoin will be good for NZ because bitcoin is good for everybody

It's not ready for widespread use yet though; once it's easy for grandma to secure her wallet, people will start being interested.

Smartphones are not very widespread here yet.  I guess bitcoin could push people into that market but is it the chicken or the egg?

After the "skynet law" epic fails, I can't see our dumb arse politicians wrapping their heads around it very well.  They might well fall for the inevitable "it's only for drugs and money laundering!!!!!11" crap.

Chur.

This is extremely incorrect.  Unfortunately, it's what a lot of people believe...
You could start reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_reserve_banking

I agree with "keep it simple" and predict the following:

We know at a glance that $23k means $23,000.00, not $23.00.  So going the other way, 0.000023BTC will become known as $23μ (where "$" is substituted for whatever symbol ends up in common usage for BTC).  All this crazy decimal stuff might seem hard now because most people are not used to dealing with the mysterious world on the right hand side of the point -- I know I had to count the zeroes and then double-check -- embarrassing!  It will become easy though, as it comes into common usage and people get a "feel" for how much $1μ is worth.  People who grow up with bitcoin will have NO problem with this.


Yes: bitcoins will be worth that much, and people will still use "LOL" in the future.  When we all have hovercrafts.

Is that what is happening now?  The news reports going around suggest they may not be able to agree on a deal.  Here's one, but there are lots (just have a look on twitter if you want more): http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/07/us-usa-debt-exclusive-idUSTRE7660GE20110707


General question to the thread:  Is this true?  Why would bitcoin's value plummet?  Shouldn't it go "up"? 

Firstly, if the USD starts crashing it's not like people already into bitcoin are going to suddenly sell all their BTC to get in on the death spiral action; probably more likely they will dump as many USD as they can get their hands on, right?  It's true as you say, that BTC has no impact on most of the world's population, yet, but the primary reasons for this are that a) no-one's heard of it, and b) the software isn't ready for mainstream usability.  The core technology is solid enough to have gained the trust of a lot of very smart people; it's just a matter of time before its "impact" is felt far and wide.  So, I'm not sure I get what you're saying.  Is it that you think US citizens will buy gold so they can use it to buy food (and from what I've been reading around the place, guns and ammo -- so glad I'm on the other side of the planet!) as the sky falls?  That is probably true, but if I was there I'd certainly be buying a few extra BTCs as well to hedge my bets, or at least definitely not selling the ones I already have...

Secondly, well, I don't understand enough to know what will happen to the other world currencies if USA defaults, beyond the "serious global implications" suggested by lots of middle-aged men with very serious faces... but surely if USD's value falls, it will fall MORE than the other currencies?  If this is true, let's say BTC is trading at around 11EUR/15.5USD, and the USD suddenly falls so that 11EUR = 20USD (yes I know that is extreme but it's just an example).  Before there's any change in the BTC market, won't bitcoins which are still worth 11EUR suddenly be worth 20USD?  (Not that you'd want the dollars even though there are more of them!)...  And if the EUR falls too, well, BTC will go up in price even if it doesn't go up in value.  But of course in that scenario it would quickly go up in ACTUAL value because people would see it sailing along quite happily as the other currencies come crashing down around it...

Surely the relevant question to ask an Indian villager etc would be whether they would prefer a bitcoin or some USD.  Well if I was that villager, and if I knew and understood what a bitcoin is, and if the USA defaults on its debt (whether it's in 3 weeks or further down the road), I damn well know which one I'd pick!

Please tell me if and where and how I'm wrong

---

tl;dr: Why would BTC plummet?  Wouldn't it go up?  Plz explain!

OMG, now "OTHER" is approaching 50%

http://chart.googleapis.com/chart?chs=350x200&chd=t:0.93,2.66,3.75,26.11,4.64,2.06,3.32,47.79,0.28,7.00,1.20,0.24&cht=p&chf=bg,s,00000000&chl=ars|deepbit|BitcoinPool|slush|bitcoins.lc|btcguild|MtRed|other|bitpit|btcmine|bitclockers|swepool

Seriously though, I think a lot of people will feel a lot more comfortable when distributed mining pools become the norm...
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=9137.0

WIN 

Most of the issues you've mentioned are already on the way to being addressed.  Bitcoin is still very young.  As it grows, it will become portable/secure/easy to use/etc.  I believe this includes the government / threat to power argument, but this is an interesting one, and the topic of the following ramble: 

I think that by its very existence, bitcoin has let the cat out of the bag.  Cryptocurrency is here now.  Barring something on the level of a cataclysmic nuclear war which takes out most of the internet, it's here to stay.  I watch with great interest to see what will unfold.  I truly hope it will turn over a new leaf for humanity as much as it theoretically could in my idealistic fantasy land. 

Just looking at the state of humanity right now, it is clear to see there are turbulent times ahead; even if bitcoin were to vanish from existence right now, it would still be so.  The power structure of the entire civilized world is already threatened, heaving under its own weight.  But it doesn't necessarily have to become World War 3 -- I mean look, there's even a place for central banks in a bitcoin economy:  People will continue to use "trustworthy" services to protect their assets; banks could adapt to profit from this.  Naive?  Probably, but change is required regardless.  No, it won't come easily, but maybe, just maybe, bitcoin will help humanity move toward a better society than they could have if the illusion of the status quo could somehow be maintained. 

I could paraphrase your closing statement:  The big guns in the financial industry will be their own downfall, they will get too big, they will get big enough that they get noticed and then it will all come tumbling down when those in [real] power (i.e., the people) start to pay attention.

The "why can't we just work together" argument only fails when someone wants to be king of the castle.  Well, now we have to work together, whether we like it or not.  Sounds to me like the only acceptable way forward.  Vires in Numeris

Well said.

I like it.  I agree with everything in the above statement, but, it's those damn technical details...

• It can be anonymous, but only if you know what you're doing.
• It is secure and easy to use, but not easy to use securely.
• It's a fast compared to international wire transfers, but too slow for day-to-day use. (e.g., 10-60 minutes is too long to wait for a burger).
• It can't be accepted where there is no internet connection, or where people have no clue.

All of these things can and will be fixed; I just feel that it is important to be careful at this early stage, when talking about ways to "let the world know" about bitcoin, not to make it sound better than it is (yet).  It could be quite bad for public confidence if there was for example a wave of adoption followed by a wave of wallet theft due to ignorance...

How about:

"Bitcoin.  You're not ready."
"Bitcoin is a doorway; your mind is the only key."
"It is like a finger pointing at a coin..."
"Bitcoin is awesome but you totally wouldn't get it."

 

I'm not sure if I agree with this or not   Certainly, if one uses terms such as "decentralization" and "inflation" and "market cap" etc, most people's eyes will glaze.  If it's presented in a different way, however, maybe it can very much hit home with your average joe.  The section of this song I've quoted below is one example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bqxnm6t3QMw


One further thing though, directed at this topic of conversation in general rather than your post: After reading the threads about TV ads etc, I agree with the comments in there which are along the lines of, 'Bitcoin isn't ready for advertising yet -- until there are serious improvements to security (for stupid), and UI usability (for stupid), there will be chaos if everyone jumps on board right now.  Stolen wallets and all sorts of scamming, resulting in a loss of public confidence.'  I don't want to be a buzzkill, I believe this situation will most certainly change, but we're not there yet...