Thanks - that is exactly my point. Yes we all know the risks and we take them. What people have to realise is that the destruction like what we are seeing again can only happen so many times before what I believe will destroy Bitcoin. Not that many Bitcoin investors are libertarians or idealists that are only thinking about the freeing the world. No they are everyday people that hurt when they lose their money and they don't need people giving them lectures on what they need to understand.

Please do not come back with the I know more than you attitude. I am expressing an emotion felt by many right now. Yes you are correct there is no promise and there was no promise - everyone takes there own risk with Bitcoin which I do understand. My point is that the infighting and the childish behavior of so many people in the crypto community is what will inhibit its general adoption. Like it or not most people are in Bitcoin for investment and making money and not some idealistic free the world notion.

Who is blaming Bitcoin? - its nothing but an dam algorithm. Rather than putting the Mr superiority hat on try and understand that what is happening to Bitcoin right now is the reason why its survival is in crisis. Its not about nit picking its just a fact that is pissing many people of.

So you honestly think that there are not a handful of whales controlling the price? - if so how is that decentralised? - just another form of control

For years we have listened to the bullshit about decentralised money and how the people will have control of their money with Bitcoin. Well what a lot of shit that ended up being. It is obvious that Bitcoin is not decentralised and a few miners or whatever can completely destroy this innovation. I am sick of listening to those self absorbed arrogant rich nerds that should never be in the position that they are with the Bitcoin Cash hardfork. I know this is BCH but it is screwing up everything. I don't really give a crap whether Roger Ver's vission or Craig Wrights vision is correct - all I know is that there selfish tweets and playing so called nerd hardball about moving Bitcoin hashrate to BCH and deliberately forcing the Bitcoin price down to 1000 USD to prove a point is absolute insanity. It proves to me that decentralization is a myth and having these kind of people lead us to the future is nothing less than a nightmare and the possible end for Bitcoin and all crypto. What a wasted chance all of this is ending up to be!

Great everyone - thanks for the responses.

Sorry if this is in the wrong section as I am not sure where it should go. However can someone explain to me what I now do with my Bitcoin Cash in a paper wallet. I read this morning that Bitcoin Cash no longer exists so I am assuming I now have private keys for both Bitcoin Cash ABC and Bitcoin Cash SV. If so how do I sweep these and get the coins? Also according to Cryptomarket capital Bitcoin Cash is valued at 414 USD. Bitcoin Cash ABC at 282 USD and Bitcoin Cash SV at 81 USD. The two new coins only add up to about 360 USD. So what the hell do I actually have an how is there still a value for Bitcoin Cash if it does not exist anymore.

Mods - please feel free to move to appropriate section if I should not have this post here but I am sick of all the infighting with Bitcoin camps which is pissing everyone else off and ruining the chances of making crypto mainstream.

I am not sure who posted this but that telegram site is an absolute scam - someone tried to pretend to be from Bitfinex and got me to send them my email and then they sent a crappy looking email supposedly from Bitfinex asking me to verify my account by depositing 1 bitcoin into an address they give. Is there no end to this crap!!!

Dear Bitfinex,

I do not hold any credence in these rumors but what I do hate is the fact that I have (what is for me a large sum for me) USD missing in some kind of black hole between Bitfinex and my Bank. This has been the status for over 5 weeks now and you are not answering me with a simple update or the opportunity to return my money to my account so that I can withdraw in Bitcoin.

I understand from a statement you have made below that everything is going OK.

“Bitfinex is not insolvent, and a constant stream of Medium articles claiming otherwise is not going to change this. As one of only a very few exchanges operating since 2013, with a small team and low operating costs, we do not entirely understand the arguments that purport to show us to be insolvent without providing any explanation about why.”

You say you do not understand the arguments that evidence these rumors. The simple fact is that people like me are just being ignored by you while you boast of a small team and low operating costs. Low operating costs mean Jack shit when you do not provide a service. As much as we all hate the Banks the fact is a Bank would not keep me sitting here for 5 weeks wondering where the hell is my money.

For Gods sake please address my support ticket above.

I do not like to do this but I now feel I have no other option. I have now been waiting for over 5 weeks to get what I consider a large amount of USD out of Bitfinex to my bank account. The last communication I had with Bitfinex was on the 28 September where they told me that Crypto Capital had just started to resume USD wires. I cannot get any further update from them and they are not responding to my ticket request or follow up emails. I have even told them that they can just return the USD and let me take the money out in Bitcoin.

This is all a little disconcerting when you read the rumors of Bitfinex being insolvent. Now I do not think for one minute that they are but surely in such an environment they could at least make the effort to communicate with me. I have always liked Bitfinex and because of this I feel let down and disappointing.

If anyone from Bitfinex monitors this my support ticket is #966442. Please can you have this looked at and find my money. I just don't get it - I understand business so why would you leave a customer like me out in the cold like this? Surely to maintain a reputation you should be at least speaking to customers like me.

The problem I found with these is as soon as you get one and start using it they provider has problems with their intermediary banks and then it no longer works. I paid 20 USD for a Wirex a year ago - it worked for a few weeks and then stopped. Now they want me to go through the whole BS process again to get another card.

Ok but why do we need intermediaries? Surely if everything is licenced and meeting regulatory standards we can finally have exchanges that deal directly with the major Banks. I say this with a bit of annoyance at the moment not because of your organisation but I am sick and tired of waiting for my money to come from exchanges - Currently I have been waiting two weeks now for a withdrawal from Bitfinex. Everything shows as completed their end but no sight of my money anywhere. To make matters worse Bitfinex is ignoring my tickets - if anyone from Bitfinex is reading this - just have the common decency to tell me where our money is!!!!!!!!!!

Also last January - Kraken, CEX.io and Coinbase all failed to let me get my money out - all because of problems with their intermediary banks - I am sorry but this is just not good enough from the Exchanges - you are all making money so at least give us some customer service!!

Thanks but will your organisation have direct money transfer facilities to major banks such as HSBC, Barclays etc without intermediaries? Can we get money transferred in a day or two instead of 2 weeks and more?

Yes I agree - it is more about the Banks not cooperating with them. I find it absolutely unacceptable that Banks can interfere with the flow of your funds when they can see that they are perfectly legitimate and the Exchange you use follow strict AML procedures. It really annoys me when I here how they refer to some tiny print in there 200 page T's & C's that refers to the use of crypto currency. Banks should not be dictating to customers what and how they use and send their money provided that they are following all the rules.

Please tell me this. Does this mean that we will be able to withdraw fiat currency a lot easier without it disappearing into the Abyss of the Intermediary Bank?

Why is it so dam difficult to find out where your money is when you withdraw USD from an Exchange.

I have been using a number of exchanges for years and it always seems to be the case that you withdraw from the Bitcoin Exchange and you wait for ever for it to arrive in your Bank account. Meanwhile the Exchange tells you that they have sent the money and your Bank tells you that they have no record of it. The best you ever seem to get from the Exchange is that it is with the Intermediary Bank. Well this is not good enough. Last January when crypto was going crazy I had money sitting in the Abyss or Black Hole or wherever it goes when it enters this 'Intermediary' territory for weeks on end. Surely these dam Exchanges can speak to their intermediaries and find out what is happening but they never do. WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT ? - Again I am waiting and nobody knows where the money is - how is anyone going to get comfortable with crypto when it works like this?

To be honest I am still a little concerned about Coinbase in that they want to have such a good reputation but you can not have that when you crap on your smaller customers. My issue was that my fiat money was held locked up in Coinbase for weeks without any communication from them.  At the time Coinbase were taking on new customers as fast as they could and developing their corporate products. The fact was that it was the greed of Coinbase that side tracked them and they ignored me as a long standing customer that had passed all their internal checks. On reflection - yes I would like a proper apology from Coinbase. I will allow response to this but afterwards will close this thread.

I only just say this but I am happy to update everyone on this. The actual dates etc I cannot remember but what I can say is that after waiting for several weeks I gave up on trying to withdraw any money from Coinbase. I ended up buying Bitcoin on Coinbase and transferring the Bitcoin to Localbitcoins. I remember that in the time I transferred to Localbitcoins the Bitcoins price was falling fast. I held on and it fell even more and it cost me quite a lot of money (around 25% loss)  by the time I actually managed to sell it on LocalBitcoins.

The point here was that Coinbase failed me when I tried to withdraw fiat cash to a Bank account. I had been fully verified with them for about a year and a half. They eventually got back with half baked excuses etc which did not help me get my money back. Yes Coinbase are reputable and probably an ethical exchange but their inability to deal with fiat money at the beginning of this year has put me off them forever.

Bitcoin like any other crypto has to start getting some real time use and we need to see practical application. So far the actual uptake of any of the coins is for all practical purposes zero and people are losing interest. Lets face it there needs to be a mass adoption by some major platform like Facebook where Bitcoin can be traded peer to peer with others on Facebook including business and not always having to convert back to USD. For example what is the f*&îing point in these bullshit credit cards like wirex where you have to put your Bitcoin into a wallet and then buy USD with it so you can use it as a credit card - what is the point? I may as well just use my credit card. Please for the love of God can we see some actual take up of a crypto technology that is just not experimental and something that real people can see and understand. I mean they are advertising the power of blockchain in adverts during the world cup. NOBODY KNOWS what the f*&^% that means and neigther do the frigin marketers. I am telling people now that if any of the cryptos are actually going to survive they need to demonstrate actual usage now and not always just be some potential gimmick that may work in 5 years time!!

The market is horrible now - look at it - it is just a series of small pumps followed by a slow leakage down - rather like trying to keep a bouncy castle inflated but it has a leak. Sooner or later they will have a huge dump and it will all be down at ATLs.

It has degenerated into a series of small pumps and dumps with no organic activity in it anymore - maybe it is because there is such little interest in Bitcoin right now and just the Whales buying and selling to each other.