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Re: The press make me laugh with how they cover bitcoin, even now at 2013's end
Then one has to look at derivatives whice are a form of money used by the worldwide banking systems.
According to wikipedia there is about 70 trillion in M1, M2, and M3 including derivatives.
If one were also to include world debt that figure raises to about 700 trillion worldwide. World debt is comonly known to exceed 700 trillion dollars.
If Bitcoin were to have a valuation of just a fraction of the above amount, each bitcoin would have a value of over $ 1 million USD. If It were to get a moderate piece of the world monetary market each coin would have a valuation of up to $20 million USD each!
According to wikipedia there is about 70 trillion in M1, M2, and M3 including derivatives.
If one were also to include world debt that figure raises to about 700 trillion worldwide. World debt is comonly known to exceed 700 trillion dollars.
If Bitcoin were to have a valuation of just a fraction of the above amount, each bitcoin would have a value of over $ 1 million USD. If It were to get a moderate piece of the world monetary market each coin would have a valuation of up to $20 million USD each!
Derivatives are not money they are assets, and their valuation is suspect. They base their value on what are in effect a bet on conditions in various parts of the world economy, and some of the conditions cannot now be satisfied, hence the stake in the bet is worthless.
You're saying that valuing bitcoin as a currency that everyone uses is calculated by counting up all the debt as well as all the assets? That's just doesn't make sense.
The banks use derivatives as a form of credit and are used in place of cash when not available. They are used to send payments from one bank to another. Derivatives are form of debt not assets.
The media and financial media's incorrect valuation of Bitcoin
The press has recently and incorrectly covered the rise of bitcoin with some giving it an incorrect valuation while quoting wall street valuations of the cryptocurrency. I think someone needs to inform the press of the true potential of bitcoin.
The press needs to recognize the following:
Quote from:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=369943.0
Do you think the press should be informed of the above? Or do you think their coverage of bitcoin's valuation is fair?
Do you think the presses total coverage of bitcoin fair or is it biased?
The press needs to recognize the following:
Quote from:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=369943.0
Quote
One has to look at all of the money worldwide. This has to include M1, M2, and M3 money.
Then one has to look at derivatives whice are a form of money used by the worldwide banking systems.
According to wikipedia there is about 70 trillion in M1, M2, and M3 including derivatives.
If one were also to include world debt that figure raises to about 700 trillion worldwide. World debt is comonly known to exceed 700 trillion dollars.
If Bitcoin were to have a valuation of just a fraction of the above amount, each bitcoin would have a value of over $ 1 million USD. If It were to get a moderate piece of the world monetary market each coin would have a valuation of up to $20 million USD each!
Then one has to look at derivatives whice are a form of money used by the worldwide banking systems.
According to wikipedia there is about 70 trillion in M1, M2, and M3 including derivatives.
If one were also to include world debt that figure raises to about 700 trillion worldwide. World debt is comonly known to exceed 700 trillion dollars.
If Bitcoin were to have a valuation of just a fraction of the above amount, each bitcoin would have a value of over $ 1 million USD. If It were to get a moderate piece of the world monetary market each coin would have a valuation of up to $20 million USD each!
Do you think the press should be informed of the above? Or do you think their coverage of bitcoin's valuation is fair?
Do you think the presses total coverage of bitcoin fair or is it biased?
Re: The press make me laugh with how they cover bitcoin, even now at 2013's end
the second link says:
stopped reading right there, a source that's that bad at math doesn't have any creditably at all.
10.8 billion / 3.8 trillion = 0.3%? not even close (it's closer to 0.03%)
also, this is more of an argument how much growth potential bitcoin actually has.
if bitcoin grow to only 3% of the worlds money supply (which is entirely possible), bitcoins value would go up by a 100 times.
even 30% is easily possible, which means the value of bitcoin could increase by a 1000 times, making each bitcoin worth rougly a million (in todays dollars).
Quote
Reality: By any objective measure, bitcoin is tiny at a total value of $10.8 billion. Since one of the complaints about bitcoin is that it can enable hard-to-trace criminal activity, lets compare that amount to the real enabler of drug sales, tax evasion, and even more heinous crimes the world over: the U.S. $100 bill. There are about $400 billion of those floating around the world. Total stock of cash money in the U.S.: about $800 billion. And when you look at total cash around the world, the number is about $3.8 trillion. Bottom line: bitcoin at current valuation is 0.3% of the worlds cash money. That is not huge.
stopped reading right there, a source that's that bad at math doesn't have any creditably at all.
10.8 billion / 3.8 trillion = 0.3%? not even close (it's closer to 0.03%)
also, this is more of an argument how much growth potential bitcoin actually has.
if bitcoin grow to only 3% of the worlds money supply (which is entirely possible), bitcoins value would go up by a 100 times.
even 30% is easily possible, which means the value of bitcoin could increase by a 1000 times, making each bitcoin worth rougly a million (in todays dollars).
These figures are highly inacurrate.
One has to look at all of the money worldwide. This has to include M1, M2, and M3 money.
Then one has to look at derivatives whice are a form of money used by the worldwide banking systems.
According to wikipedia there is about 70 trillion in M1, M2, and M3 including derivatives.
If one were also to include world debt that figure raises to about 700 trillion worldwide. World debt is comonly known to exceed 700 trillion dollars.
If Bitcoin were to have a valuation of just a fraction of the above amount, each bitcoin would have a value of over $ 1 million USD. If It were to get a moderate piece of the world monetary market each coin would have a valuation of up to $20 million USD each!
Re: THE PROBLEM IN CHINA IS THE BITCOIN FOUNDATIONS FAULT
Bitcoin is not banned in China. The problem was a communication error. Forbes magazine incorrectly stated there was a ban and in fact there was not:
So Baidu and China Telecom removed bitcoins as a payment option because they read the forbes article? I mean if anything else they don't need help to read their own language
From what I understand they did so temporarily until they receive legal clarification and understanding of the gov announcment. This is what they said anyway. It is not supposed to be permanent.
Re: If Wikipedia were to accept Bitcoin, how much would you be willing to donate?
Who cares?
If my business model depended on charity I wouldn't have any restrictions on what was donated as long as it was convertible.
If they are too stupid to accept Bitcoin to help fund their organization then too bad for them.
With approx $10 billion worldwide cryptocurrency market wikipedia is no longer important to Bitcoin or any of the alt coins.
We don't need them anymore.
If my business model depended on charity I wouldn't have any restrictions on what was donated as long as it was convertible.
If they are too stupid to accept Bitcoin to help fund their organization then too bad for them.
With approx $10 billion worldwide cryptocurrency market wikipedia is no longer important to Bitcoin or any of the alt coins.
We don't need them anymore.
WTF???
For anyone who didn't see the video, here it is:
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000224942
He doesn't seem too knowledgeable about Bitcoin though. Where is the foundation in China?
For anyone who didn't see the video, here it is:
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000224942
He doesn't seem too knowledgeable about Bitcoin though. Where is the foundation in China?
Re: THE PROBLEM IN CHINA IS THE BITCOIN FOUNDATIONS FAULT
Bitcoin is not banned in China. The problem was a communication error. Forbes magazine incorrectly stated there was a ban and in fact there was not:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364556.0
The Forbes article is very erroneous and is one of the causes of the crypto market crash. The correct interpretation of the Chinese announcement is here:
http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/12/08/bitcoin-china-meaning/
Quote:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=364556.0
The Forbes article is very erroneous and is one of the causes of the crypto market crash. The correct interpretation of the Chinese announcement is here:
http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/12/08/bitcoin-china-meaning/
Quote:
Quote
Many folks, like Bloomberg and Forbes, have erroneously asserted that China has banned Bitcoin in a statement on December 5th.. This isnt, in fact, the case. I used to be a vice president for a large investment bank based in Hong Kong, so I can provide a little better insight than most on whats going on with.
The Peoples Bank of China has basically given the green light for Bitcoin trading and exchanges. They are trying to keep Bitcoin trading separate from the other parts of the financial system so that if Bitcoin blows up, then nothing bad will happen. The thing that I think they are worried about is a Lehman Brothers-style situation in which something blowing up in derivatives brings down the rest of the economy.
The strategy of creating a ring fence around new markets is a very standard one in China. Hong Kong is an entire city that is ring fenced.
Outside of financial institutions covered by the Peoples Bank of China regulation, there is no other legal restriction for using Bitcoins as the medium of transactions.
People arent prohibited from using Bitcoin to purchase things (like a currency), but I dont want to use the word currency since legally speaking Bitcoin is not a currency in either Hong Kong or Mainland China. The fact that Bitcoin is not a currency means that it can be used for transactions in Mainland China. If it was a currency you couldnt legally use it for a transaction in Mainland China, so the fact that the Chinese authorities consider bitcoin a commodity and not a currency is extremely important.
The same thing goes for Hong Kong. You can use anything for a transaction, but if you convert currencies, you need a money broker license.
One good thing about the Chinese announcement is that by declaring bitcoin to be a commodity that creates legal certainty for how it is to be regulated.
The Peoples Bank of China has basically given the green light for Bitcoin trading and exchanges. They are trying to keep Bitcoin trading separate from the other parts of the financial system so that if Bitcoin blows up, then nothing bad will happen. The thing that I think they are worried about is a Lehman Brothers-style situation in which something blowing up in derivatives brings down the rest of the economy.
The strategy of creating a ring fence around new markets is a very standard one in China. Hong Kong is an entire city that is ring fenced.
Outside of financial institutions covered by the Peoples Bank of China regulation, there is no other legal restriction for using Bitcoins as the medium of transactions.
People arent prohibited from using Bitcoin to purchase things (like a currency), but I dont want to use the word currency since legally speaking Bitcoin is not a currency in either Hong Kong or Mainland China. The fact that Bitcoin is not a currency means that it can be used for transactions in Mainland China. If it was a currency you couldnt legally use it for a transaction in Mainland China, so the fact that the Chinese authorities consider bitcoin a commodity and not a currency is extremely important.
The same thing goes for Hong Kong. You can use anything for a transaction, but if you convert currencies, you need a money broker license.
One good thing about the Chinese announcement is that by declaring bitcoin to be a commodity that creates legal certainty for how it is to be regulated.
Re: BITCOIN IS NOT BANNED IN CHINA! FORBES ARTICLE INCORRECT.
I think what most people do not understand about China is that you do not have to use legal government currency to buy things. You can use other things to purchase good and services; like Bitcoin for example.
By banning the banks from participating they actually ensured the success of bitcoin operating outside of the central banking system.
Companies in china can still sell goods and services for bitcoin. They are not banned.
By banning the banks from participating they actually ensured the success of bitcoin operating outside of the central banking system.
Companies in china can still sell goods and services for bitcoin. They are not banned.
BITCOIN IS NOT BANNED IN CHINA! FORBES ARTICLE INCORRECT.
The Forbes article is very erroneous and is one of the causes of the crypto market crash. The correct interpretation of the Chinese announcement is here:
http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/12/08/bitcoin-china-meaning/
Quote:
Quote
Many folks, like Bloomberg and Forbes, have erroneously asserted that China has banned Bitcoin in a statement on December 5th.. This isnt, in fact, the case. I used to be a vice president for a large investment bank based in Hong Kong, so I can provide a little better insight than most on whats going on with.
The Peoples Bank of China has basically given the green light for Bitcoin trading and exchanges. They are trying to keep Bitcoin trading separate from the other parts of the financial system so that if Bitcoin blows up, then nothing bad will happen. The thing that I think they are worried about is a Lehman Brothers-style situation in which something blowing up in derivatives brings down the rest of the economy.
The strategy of creating a ring fence around new markets is a very standard one in China. Hong Kong is an entire city that is ring fenced.
Outside of financial institutions covered by the Peoples Bank of China regulation, there is no other legal restriction for using Bitcoins as the medium of transactions.
People arent prohibited from using Bitcoin to purchase things (like a currency), but I dont want to use the word currency since legally speaking Bitcoin is not a currency in either Hong Kong or Mainland China. The fact that Bitcoin is not a currency means that it can be used for transactions in Mainland China. If it was a currency you couldnt legally use it for a transaction in Mainland China, so the fact that the Chinese authorities consider bitcoin a commodity and not a currency is extremely important.
The same thing goes for Hong Kong. You can use anything for a transaction, but if you convert currencies, you need a money broker license.
One good thing about the Chinese announcement is that by declaring bitcoin to be a commodity that creates legal certainty for how it is to be regulated.
The Peoples Bank of China has basically given the green light for Bitcoin trading and exchanges. They are trying to keep Bitcoin trading separate from the other parts of the financial system so that if Bitcoin blows up, then nothing bad will happen. The thing that I think they are worried about is a Lehman Brothers-style situation in which something blowing up in derivatives brings down the rest of the economy.
The strategy of creating a ring fence around new markets is a very standard one in China. Hong Kong is an entire city that is ring fenced.
Outside of financial institutions covered by the Peoples Bank of China regulation, there is no other legal restriction for using Bitcoins as the medium of transactions.
People arent prohibited from using Bitcoin to purchase things (like a currency), but I dont want to use the word currency since legally speaking Bitcoin is not a currency in either Hong Kong or Mainland China. The fact that Bitcoin is not a currency means that it can be used for transactions in Mainland China. If it was a currency you couldnt legally use it for a transaction in Mainland China, so the fact that the Chinese authorities consider bitcoin a commodity and not a currency is extremely important.
The same thing goes for Hong Kong. You can use anything for a transaction, but if you convert currencies, you need a money broker license.
One good thing about the Chinese announcement is that by declaring bitcoin to be a commodity that creates legal certainty for how it is to be regulated.
THE PROBLEM IN CHINA IS THE BITCOIN FOUNDATIONS FAULT
If the elitist members of the foundation had remembered the Bitcoin is a GLOBAL currency and not an American currency, they would have bothered to kiss the asses of the Chinese bureaucrats like they did in the senate. Instead they left all the ass kissing up to a single Chinese businessman who was completely clueless in one of the most important markets in the cryptocurrency trade.
A plane ticket to china is not that expensive. They couldn't give up some of their bitcoins just to fly to Beijing themselves?
If the elitist members of the foundation had remembered the Bitcoin is a GLOBAL currency and not an American currency, they would have bothered to kiss the asses of the Chinese bureaucrats like they did in the senate. Instead they left all the ass kissing up to a single Chinese businessman who was completely clueless in one of the most important markets in the cryptocurrency trade.
A plane ticket to china is not that expensive. They couldn't give up some of their bitcoins just to fly to Beijing themselves?
Re: [ANN] LOGIN COIN - USED FOR LOGIN AND AUTHENTICATION ONLY
Cool idea!
Got any code to go with it? If not, I wouldn't use the [ANN] tag.
Got any code to go with it? If not, I wouldn't use the [ANN] tag.
Just clone any fast altcoin. I.e feathercoin, etc...
If you build good features into the coin, it will become valueable too.
Add in good security features that can output to java, sql, microsoft, linux, oracle, etc... if you do this i can guarantee the coin will have value.
[ANN] LOGIN COIN - USED FOR LOGIN AND AUTHENTICATION ONLY
Here is a good idea for a coin that will be useful and valueable:
LOGINCOIN
A coin who sole purpose is for login and authentication.
Here is how it would work:
1. Give it a good name.
2. Configure the altcoin to produce at least 84 million coins.
3. Set the blocktime to at least 30 seconds but not less than 20.
4. Put a wallet on the server host.
5. Request a specific amount of coins for login from a registerd wallet address for each login attempt.
6. Once funds recieved allow user login.
7. Return coins back to address when logout or timeout period expires.
8. Request coins in small fractions, I.e 0.036752 LGN (symbol for logincoin)
9. Return coins promptly.
10. Allow users to set number of confirmations for security vs. Speed of login
11. Use as primary or secondary authentication for websites.
12. Cannot be hacked by government.
LOGINCOIN
A coin who sole purpose is for login and authentication.
Here is how it would work:
1. Give it a good name.
2. Configure the altcoin to produce at least 84 million coins.
3. Set the blocktime to at least 30 seconds but not less than 20.
4. Put a wallet on the server host.
5. Request a specific amount of coins for login from a registerd wallet address for each login attempt.
6. Once funds recieved allow user login.
7. Return coins back to address when logout or timeout period expires.
8. Request coins in small fractions, I.e 0.036752 LGN (symbol for logincoin)
9. Return coins promptly.
10. Allow users to set number of confirmations for security vs. Speed of login
11. Use as primary or secondary authentication for websites.
12. Cannot be hacked by government.
[ANN-USSCFOUNDER IS BACK!] - When will the chinese release a coin of their own?
Sorry I have been gone for so long. I am glad to be back. (I see than some people took my suggestion and created a coin that actually good for something [Primecoin]. I am happy about that!)
Back to the topic at hand:
Many of us got burned by Chinacoin because we thought it was really Chinese and it wasn't. If the Chinese really do release a coin it is going to be big.
USSCFounder.
Back to the topic at hand:
Many of us got burned by Chinacoin because we thought it was really Chinese and it wasn't. If the Chinese really do release a coin it is going to be big.
USSCFounder.
The company's incompetence is staggering...
It's always easier to criticize than do. Where is your track record for being a huge pillar of support in the billion dollar Bitcoin ecosystem with your competence, dealing with unending security worries, local govt pressure, foreign govt pressure, user pressure, scams, lawsuits, user incompetence, user complaints, system upgrades, technical problems, competition, employee problems, normal problems, partner/bank problems and who knows what else?
In case you didn't know, its called business.
I have worked on Wall Street. I have also worked for companies like PriceWaterHouse and Thompson.
I will admit that most companies have a growth path that takes time. MTGOX has grown substantially and has probably bitten off more than they could chew.
If you cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen.
MTGOX needs to be run by a more professional, more experienced company that can handle those types of pressures.
why would they sell the company to a bunch new people?
theyr making money
no matter how bad their tech or service like you said
they still got most customers
you can switch exchange if you like?
Let's get real here for all of you that keep saying switch to another exchange. Quit pretending that you don't know that MTGOX handles over 80% of all Bitcoin trades, OK?
If there was another exchange for people to switch to I am sure that they would.
Don't say BTC-e either. BTC-e is a nice site but they have some issues. There is a reason why MTGOX has such a large market share. There is no one who can come close to competing with them.
As good as they are, that does not excuse the incompetence on their part.
Do like what most technology startups do and SELL.
The company's incompetence is staggering...
It's always easier to criticize than do. Where is your track record for being a huge pillar of support in the billion dollar Bitcoin ecosystem with your competence, dealing with unending security worries, local govt pressure, foreign govt pressure, user pressure, scams, lawsuits, user incompetence, user complaints, system upgrades, technical problems, competition, employee problems, normal problems, partner/bank problems and who knows what else?
In case you didn't know, its called business.
I have worked on Wall Street. I have also worked for companies like PriceWaterHouse and Thompson.
I will admit that most companies have a growth path that takes time. MTGOX has grown substantially and has probably bitten off more than they could chew.
If you cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen.
MTGOX needs to be run by a more professional, more experienced company that can handle those types of pressures.
In the Age of corporate buyouts and takeovers, you would think that someone would have bought out MTGOX already!
The company's incompetence is staggering, with blunder after corporate blunder.
I could not even make it all the way through the ridiculous press release here:
https://www.facebook.com/MtGox/posts/484532824964463
All they offer is excuse after excuse...
Overload of your IT infrastructure and poor banking logistics is no excuse. It just means a lack of vision on your part. Anyone with half a brain could have seen where crypto was going.
I have seen less complex deals take place on wall street in a shorter amount of time than that which you have had to fix all of these problems.
I have also seen way more complex infrastructure implementation/provisioning in shorter amount of time.
As for MTGOX; I beg with all my heart for someone on Wall Street to please BUY OUT THIS COMPANY!
The company's incompetence is staggering, with blunder after corporate blunder.
I could not even make it all the way through the ridiculous press release here:
https://www.facebook.com/MtGox/posts/484532824964463
All they offer is excuse after excuse...
Overload of your IT infrastructure and poor banking logistics is no excuse. It just means a lack of vision on your part. Anyone with half a brain could have seen where crypto was going.
I have seen less complex deals take place on wall street in a shorter amount of time than that which you have had to fix all of these problems.
I have also seen way more complex infrastructure implementation/provisioning in shorter amount of time.
As for MTGOX; I beg with all my heart for someone on Wall Street to please BUY OUT THIS COMPANY!
Re: Announcing Alphacoin - the newest altcoin has arrived!!
send alpa please, m broke as a joke. a22fY3CvZpksn28FATfjdg1FwXzMrRrYwA
With a quip such as 'Employable, but it'll cost you' your credibility is zero on this
since you are mining like a boss, why not employ me to hold on to your alphas?
Hmm ok..my wallet is here http://i.imgur.com/87FXKF8.jpg
Only take 10 coins tho now ya hear?
Oldminer, i like your wallet, can you make one for me next time?
Please label NSFW next time!
Doesn't anyone understand how the crypto network functions? How do you suppose people will move coins around, if there are no miners to find blocks and get confirmations?
This is a huge point I'm still trying to understand about cryptocurrency as a whole. Will transaction fees be enough to keep miners going on any coin. The rationale is that once all the coins are minted, there will be more in circulation and thus more transactions and more tx fees. Those fees are supposed to subsidize the miners. The crazy thing that will probably happen with bitcoin is that towards the end, there will probably be huge hashes fighting for the last coins. That will push up the difficulty and then they will probably fall off when those last coins are minted, I think, leaving the difficulty stuck too high for a while. That is a ways off though, so maybe something will be done about that, or there already has been something done and I just haven't heard about it or haven't understood it fully.
But with the case of this coin. If all were minted in 2 weeks, there wouldn't be many services set up for people to spend their coins at, so there would be minimal transaction fees and hardly any incentive to mine at all.
This would be a good way to find out.
Generally, transaction fees should keep the miners busy. But who knows?
Lets do it and see what happens next.