Quote from: erpbridge on June 18, 2017, 03:58:54 PM

Do Not Risk a Penny on this

Here is why:
1. This is not a new idea. I work for a utility company and we have been investing billions in microgrid projects. This is exactly what it is. You create a local community / local grid, where people can support each others energy demands. The only exception here is that they are creating a decentralized buying/selling system.

BUT utility companies are never going to allow this, because it does not pay to maintain the traditional grid infrastructure.

There are already laws in place for exactly this reason, that people cannot sell their electricity to other people directly.

What this company, and other similar companies like trans active grid are doing is creating a token to make that sell-buy to get around that law(which states money isn't to be used).

Here is what will happen after. Governments will realize people are trying a way around and will BAN any asset trading that would lead to violating that law. All the money invested in these companies and their platforms will collapse.

Utility companies in the near future will be launching microgrid systems.

2. Volatility in the Token Market: The token that the company is selling again is not real money. They will be used in the platform they are launching, which means people will be buying and selling it ultimately leading to a market for that token on an exchange.

So if I am a person in a small society looking to participate in a decentralized energy production and buying platform, I would firstly have to buy these tokens, and then sell it to meet my real life demands.

But this token will be traded on an exchange, the price will be volatile just like bitcoin and hence a normal person would simply not be interested in such a technology due to the price variation in the tokens. Because that could mean losing money by selling to the platform as theilr sole incentive was to be informed on who they are selling to, and getting slightly higher price than selling to utility companies.

3. No Need for Decentralization on grid : Governments around the world buy electricity on smart grids at competitive prices. There is really no need for decentralization of grids except in third world countries where there are problems such as energy shortage etc. because utility companies have a monopoly and benefit by power outages.

But I predict that as smart grids evolve, companies like Tesla will take care of the buying/selling platform by offering something like Uber. But again that requires privatization of the grid.

And all the subsidies and incentives government provides are only to those selling and buying from the grid. They won't offer it for a private microgrid.

4. Smart Meters:
Utility companies have started providing free smart meters to its customers. What this company intends to do is use the blockchain for accounting of the electricity produced and used. But it will require customers to install separate meters which would cost a lot. Things will go wrong, and will need to be fixed.

5. Storage: Storage is currently a big issue for solar. Installing a solar system is expensive, but installing a storage system/batteries is even more expensive. Hence most of the houses that buy solar, usually do it as to only satisfy 60-70% of their electricity needs. A lot of those houses usually do not generate an excess. This means what this entire project is relying upon i.e community buying and selling is not going to be a big thing in a neighborhood.

What I am trying to say is , that blockchain and grids is a great combination. But utility companies have already started doing and investing in it. In general there is no reason for one resident of an area to see the production/consumption of another, which means that there is no need for a decentralized electric grid system. People have meters in their home and all the data relevant to them is already transparent.

All these companies are doing great work, but I don't think a Token sale is the way to go because once the token is on an exchange, it will kill the motivation of the local resident to even participate in that purchase/sale. What these companies need to do is find investors for a direct investment than creating an altcoin to just get more money, which I feel is the scammy part.

Thanks for stimulating the discussion.

When utility businesses are faced with disruption they have three choices; they can dig their heels in and resist, they can accept their day is done and just turn up their toes or they can join the disruptors and innovate. The comments above reflect a reasonable understanding of how the energy system has worked in the past, but a steadfast refusal to accept how it will work in the future.

Youre right, decentralised systems not a new idea. Large-scale energy systems have grown up from the integration of small decentralised systems over the course of the last century in the name of efficiency.

And as a result, centralised planning authorities and large private interests control the operation large-scale power stations connected via huge transmission networks. Clinging to the umbilicus of the power network, consumers have been force-fed a steady diet of price and product.

The cost of energy security can be counted in terms of control, certainty and economic dependence, but dramatic shifts in the cost, efficiency and amenity of distributed generation now means consumers can be free to make their own decisions on how and where and from whom they get the energy they need.

Distributed markets (or decentralized electric grid system as you refer to them) will be a prominent part of the future as climate change makes maintaining traditional large-scale transmission systems increasingly difficult remember Hurricane Sandy?

The rules referred to are already being challenged by regulators see New Zealands Electricity Authority or NYCs REV program to see two examples of how regulators are working to catch up with technology change to support consumers, build resilience and limit carbon emissions.

Smart-meters provide all sorts of data to all sorts of players but do not lose sight of the fact that smart-meter data belongs to the consumer not the network operator or retailer or regulator. How consumers use that data should be their decision to make.

Storage has fallen in price by nearly 60% in the past 18 months but using it to off-set your own purchases from the grid still doesnt stack up. But using storage capacity to participate in the market, using it to provide services to the network or providing retailers with peak demand support will make investments in energy storage worthwhile, so long as theres a transactive network that allows consumers to earn a return on their investments. Power companies seem to believe only they can make investments in power infrastructure but in the last five years in Australia, more new generation has been installed on consumers roofs than has been connected to transmission networks.

Volatile token prices? What about volatile energy prices that consumers have no ability to mitigate? Our white paper will explain how weve addressed exposure to price volatility ask your friendly energy retailer or network how they let customers manage their exposure to prices the answer? Turn your lights off!

The Power Ledger Foundation is not your typical Blockchain technology company. Weve got more than half a century of power system experience informing our thinking. We understand how the power system works but more importantly, we know how it can work better. At the Power Ledger Foundation, we believe empowering individuals and communities to co-create their energy future will underpin the development of a power system that is resilient, low-cost, zero-carbon and owned by the people of the world.

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