Quote from: dwdollar on June 06, 2011, 09:38:04 PM

Quote from: drugsmang on June 06, 2011, 07:38:02 PM

FailPal has never worked with digital currencies which is why nobody in their right mind accepts it for webmoney/liberty reserve even in closed trading networks. As soon as you mention you are currency trading with paypal you violate TOS and they can seize all funds

Your account will eventually be limited, or a nigerian will phish an account from a senior but clueless trader and scam you all while logged into their account like they do to countless powersellers on ebay every day. You can reverse transactions up to 180days later i wouldn't trust paypal if i was selling $5 CDs.

Never understood why bitcoin users use paypal when the entire e-currency world of Pecunix/LR/Webmoney/HDmoney/GDP/Cgold/EGold hasn't touched Paypal for trading since the 1990s heyday of scamming.

Where is that in their TOS? It may exist, but I've never seen it. Have a link handy?

A closed network is much easier to manage. I can eventually root out the scammers or whoever is inviting them. Otherwise they just keep making new accounts.

When it's all said and done I may re-list it, but I will rewrite the email contracts and make it VERY clear about the risk involved AND that BCM can not be liable for any loss.

I dug through the paypal tos and other documentation when I started trading at bitcoinmarket.com wanting to know just what my liability would be for funds i received via paypal. Closest thing I found is that neither the buyer protection or seller protection apply to non-tangible goods. I confirmed this an hour ago with a lengthy conversation with a paypal 'dispute specialist' on the phone. He confirmed that unless there is a physical item actually shipped to an address, there is no protection for either party.

*Furthermore* he confirmed that if the sending party claims that the transaction was not authorized (as opposed to goods not received, etc), that is an immediate trigger to close the case and resolve automatically in favor of the sender, reversing the transaction. I specifically asked if there was any avenue for appeal, arbitration, or anything else after that happened and the answer was "no, once a case is decided that is completely final".

I asked him what I as a seller could do to protect myself from liability from actual unauthorized transactions or dishonest buyers and the only suggestion he had was to deal only with verified paypal members.

Paypal is so "easy" that I really wish it was a viable option. No matter which party they choose to protect by default there will always be people who abuse it.

My personal suggestion for how to proceed, if at all, with paypal in bitcoin trading circles is some combination of:

-feedback on traders, to establish reliability (and make it obvious, not something you have to dig to see)
-new members start with a low limit on trade size
-some currency balance be held as 'collateral' for trades of considerable value to discourage theft.
-some way for both parties to the transaction to decline to proceed if the other has questionable reputation

xkrysis

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